065 – Ronan Rafferty – Cookie Jar Golf

We had a blast chatting with Ronan about his career, with all the war stories from his time on the European Tour. In this monster 2-hour podcast we also got to talk about Ronan’s time in the Ryder Cup, narrowly missing out on the Claret Jug to Nick Price, as well as all his adventures growing up around the game which saw him playing top level amateur golf from a very young age! We think all of our podcasts are good – but none more so than this one! Enjoy

Show Transcription

hello and welcome back to the cookie jar golf podcast I am Sam Williams and today

we’ve got a really special guest on the Pod for us um we spent like two hours talking to Ronan

Rafferty about his career everything from growing up in Northern Ireland playing The Walker cup at Cypress Point

in 81 his Ryder Cup appearance in 89 at The Belfry and also looking at some of

his successes and Adventures along the way ronan’s just a great guy superb Storyteller and uh yeah we could have

gone for days but we think this is a great episode it’s a little longer than usual it’s just two hours so

um by all means pause it come back to it but it’s a cracking episode and without further Ado we hope you enjoy the Pod

hello and welcome back to the cookie jar

golf podcast I’m joined today by Bruce Fitzpatrick hello and special guest we got Ronan Rafferty

on Ronan how are you well very well indeed uh considering lock-in for up

here for a while but uh enjoying myself I’m um I’m sort of getting into my wine collection a bit

more I I you know I’ve been collecting for about 35 years now and

um fairly decent uh collection that I’ve been able to put together but I’m managing to sample a few things okay

nothing else to do is there really I mean it’s it’s amazing how how uh the

the witching are you know gets earlier and earlier creeps forward doesn’t it it creeps before yeah I’m sort of down to

sort of like you know about three four o’clock now that feels like okay because obviously with darker nights that’s sort of but you can go much earlier I mean

you haven’t got you know Zoom meetings to conduct and podcasts and stuff running uh you know with playing golf

all around the world there’s 12 o’clock somewhere yeah exactly

of our listeners uh you live up in Scotland nowadays nearby Glen Eagles correct uh well I’ve lived up here for

um you know 18 years or so sort of 16 17 18 years and wife is from octorada I

ended up marrying my uh my best buddy on tour with Brian marchbank and I ended up marrying his wife’s sister so we’re not

related so Brian and I can always say that we slept together a quantify I’ll quantify that and say

when we when I first started on tour Brian and I room for about five years so it wasn’t quite as um uh intimating but

uh yeah Brian and I’ve been buddies for oh God since um nearly the day I turned Pro so that’s coming up on well

well it is 40 years ago does it does it fly bloody hell I know I know 40 years

wow God you can live a lifetime in 40 years incredible stuff and is that the is that where you play a little bit of

your golf octarado or uh no no actually um I’m the Ambassador for the

Renaissance Club I hardly ever go to Glen Eagles amazing when you mentioned you live near Glen Eagles oh yeah it’s fantastic the hotel is fantastic the

Kings the Queensgate you know the Ryder Cup and all that sort of stuff but you know I only really go there for for

dinner and food and occasionally head balls there’s a beautiful little part three course at Gleneagles as well

there’s a pitch and Putt course beside the hotel but there’s a par three course left in the first of the Kings which is

a a great game of golf you can hit every iron in the bag so that’s quite good for a better practice but hardly ever go

there I’m busy uh I’m down at Renaissance a lot of the time quite I do quite a lot of corporate stuff so I’m

traveling around the country and you know the you know I go to a lot of remote places I have a project they’re

trying to play the you know the well I did play the top 100 course of the British house and I played The Master list of the 225 and then you know other

courses of interest on top of that so I keep myself busy during the season but normally we once the the r goes back I’m

pretty full at it five days a week doing corporate stuff meeting people looking after guests Renaissance and just

generally doing golf stuff that’s awesome Bruce Bruce wasn’t a fan of Renaissance where you got turned

um was it nine and seven or something it was you yeah by your partner by your partner he was

you know you were sort of uh desperately Clinging On to his his coattails there Sam but yeah thanks for thanks for

reminding me of it um just glad we got some good videography to make make the trip worthwhile actually absolutely did you

like it did you like our tent hole what a beautiful hole that is the the power four around the cliff

and then wrote beautiful beautiful golf ball that is and probably the best halfway house as well that it that it

leads to in golf I’d say it’s not the worst view in the world is it yeah yeah I know I love it there’s amazing many

people get stuck during the summer yeah yeah you know the the first the first the first unit comic leads to the

seventh and 8th gin and tonic and before you know it that that’s uh the Hawaiian away the afternoon and we do a very good

we do a very good mince pie out there I know they’ve started doing the macaroni pies I bet that’s something you don’t

get downside oh wow yeah well I must admit the pies were very good that was a very enjoyable hour or so we spent in

that halfway house with uh there’s an outcome so um so I guess to kind of Kick this thing

off where do we start and maybe talk about um your entry into the game because it

was a pretty early start into some pretty heavy hitting tournaments for you wasn’t it Ronan so just tell us a little

bit about kind of growing up and getting into golf if that’s okay well we’ll go from it getting into golf

was actually quite simple I mean I went to a school in Yuri County Down The Abbey grammar that the the primary

school was at the bottom of the hill in this and the senior school was at the top of the hill and I used to we used to

get the bus we moved from Yuri down to Warren Point which you know it’s quite a famous golfing course done more

important but at the time you know I didn’t play but um I used to get the bus with my brother

and I used to have to wait at the bus with him or get it with him up at the uh the grammar school so he used to have to

walk up the hill after uh I was done and um you know golf was was on the

curriculum there you know they they had a golf lessons once a week on a Wednesday and I just remember sort of

having the my brother started doing it okay you know waiting another 45 minutes and I ended up going in and it was you

know as you do you’re sitting in the corner and you think oh I’ll see if this is like and I started sort of swinging

it and the guy uh don Patterson who who you know end up being a very famous coach uh in Ireland and actually for the

PGA uh just so decide oh that looks okay I had a few balls and before you know it was hooked and that was it and and then

you know Warren Point you know but God this is a long time ago you asked me a question to buy stuff over 40 years ago

um and I know it’s a longer it’s a long time it’s gone where did it all go and

um warrenpoint had three Irish Internationals in the one year three youth Irish International actors Roy

McCormick Pat trainer Peter o’hagen and I the one of the first days I went down to the golf club these guys were having

their pictures taken in their Irish sweaters and they they were going to England

they were going to England you know you gotta remember this is 19 you know 76 well not even 76 74 uh or so in in

Ireland and a Northern Ireland and yeah going they were going to England and to

play in the Internationals and that got me that was that was me off and then Don took me under his wing and by 14 you

know I was playing 54 holes a day with mates hitting bows in between you know I

was always going to pre be a pro golfer uh I mean I started playing the big ball when I was 14 I mean these things were

hard to get a hold of uh the small bowl was then everything was very amateurish you know you couldn’t do anything or you

know the the your union were done and you couldn’t receive anything uh and

um big ball was tournament play right well yeah because I was playing all sorts of boy stuff but then they allowed

me to play in the boys championship so you know I was turning up playing this 14 year old playing in the you know the

conic boys at athlone with a big ball and they’re all looking at me going what you’re doing that for you know and I

want to be a pro you know all this sort of stuff and you can see them looking at you going yeah yeah yeah

um and I remember when I was 16 uh I’d won some inter-school stuff and I mean at

this stage as well I mean I’d basically stopped going to school because uh at at what 16 I was a boy Youth and Senior for

my my County my Province my club my country and gbni right and there wasn’t

a lot of time for going to school yeah and but there’s two major

boys competitors inter-schools conversations at the time the Aer Lingus and the gonna say the Ulster schools or

something and basically the deal was as long as I played for the school and these sort of things they they ticked me

in so um you know I I wouldn’t appear for weeks and then suddenly I’d turn up at some golf club and play with the school

team and and hopefully beat some other young kid anything and then disappear again for

weeks but you know at 16 as well I was sent over to uh the Irish team you know

I’d made the squad at 15. uh played in the in the home Internationals well this

was sorry I’m I’m sort of relating all sorts of stories here but the the 1979 winner was picked for the team the full

Irish team at 15 it was the year that um with some serious bombings in Northern

Ireland and it was canceled we ended up just playing a a little match against Wales a port Cole and and England played

Scotland upper Troon and um then at 16 you know I was playing you know I was

living in the UK traveling this is when I’ve met like Roger Chapman I don’t know he played on the tour and then he won

two major uh senior Majors there a few years ago uh Roger and I are best buddies for you know 40 odd years or so

um you know I ended up staying with him we went over for the lithium trophy in April and basically I never went home

that was me done and so I played the whole sort of UK circuit I mean I only ever played like four Irish

championships only played in east of Ireland twice and the Irish close twice and it’s amazing that many people come

up to you during the junior Lifetime and say oh I remember watching you playing in the north of Ireland or Porters you

go no I didn’t no no no no no no no no no no no I was actually never there yeah no I

beat you in the third round of that not actually you know you didn’t um but uh anyway so I was I was

um did you break it to them when they say that I just sort of Nod and go along with it and kind of yeah yeah

because I’m sure I’m sure they’d probably be somewhere I just can’t remember because you know I played all

the time I mean because golf clubs in Ireland in those days every Golf Club used to have what was known as a scratch

trophy which was four and under four handicap and under and if you had a you had a 36 holder on Saturday 36 hole or

somewhere else on Sunday are some of the bigger clubs had 72 whole ones so look I

spent from when I was able to which was basically halfway through being 14 years

old to when I turned pro at yeah 17 I mean I was the youngest European tour

pro probably I think still am um you had 72 holes of tournament to play

every and that was in between all the club matches the county matches and this matches this and and a and other stuff

that you went off to pray for so golf for me quite early was a full-time game

a little story I remember that yeah I left school the day I was illegally able

to some states at 16 April six you know when I was 16 years old and I went in

you know more early morning got all my gear and sort of like upped and left and you know people were shouting at me what

you doing so I’m leaving I’m leaving and uh they they hold me down to the careers uh teacher to sort of have a bit of a

chat and he sat me down very soon he said yo Rafferty what are you going to do for a little going to be a pro golfer sir no no what are you going to do for a

proper job and well anyways the rest is history

Yeah well yeah okay in the end I guess it worked out all right in the end but

practice and I guess I mean by the sounds of things you were not only were you in

love with the game and playing it regularly but you’re also getting quite a bit of success and what am I right thinking you know one thing you won

things like the boys animated championship and then you kind of qualified for the open at the age of 16 what was it

you’re reminding me of all sorts of things yeah I won the British boys at barasi actually down the road oh well

the British boy you made because it used to be said we used to have an international match against

um Scotland or so before I think there was all these little International match and uh so you you go over early and you

play these four songs and singles as they always used to uh do in those days and

um you know get into the boys championship and you know when Ryan went around anyway I ended I ended up beating

my teammate you know and friend Phil Walton in the in the semi-final and ended up beating David Ray in the final

and we both I mean people will remember because golf companies come and go but I used to have a set of golf clubs called

confidence an American company and we both turn up we both had confidence golf

clubs I’m sure it’s probably one of the few times that you know two obscure names that’ll go but in Ireland the

finals don’t start until like 10 o’clock or something in the morning and all the officials are all we’re all having

breakfast and at about a quarter to nine I’ve sort of said to work I’m looking at the the start sheet I’m trying to fill

in because these big RNA sheets of all the draw and stuff like that and I’m trying to fill in this thing to have a

you know a copy of this you know me getting to the final and I sort of look at the final and it says no nine o’clock

and I was thinking hang on you know nobody said anything about nine o’clock anyway I should go up the fish and go oh

sir you know just uh I think the finals at nine o’clock the guy goes oh God God Christ almighty

anyway but literally I I am being spared through the streets of air or something

to this golf course Screech to hold into the middle of the car park rush out I’ve still got my normal shoes on and I and

I’m literally being on my second call David Ray’s done the first day a couple hundred people run the First Tee I’m on

my second call on the team my third call you get dq’d I literally have the driver

in my hand Peg it down with the tea and and you know have a quick practice swing take the swing hit it down the Fairway

my golf club my golf shoes come running after me one of the officials that’s got my golf shoes in the hand and and then

with you he hits his T-shirt I stick my shoes on sort of rushed down the Fairway and hit an eight-hand stung Dead one up

unreal and they say yeah what does it take to be a professional golfer at the top levels yeah no Dynamic warm-up or or

buckets of balls beforehand yeah yeah yeah yeah straight into it no chat with the buyer mechanists no sort of um no

sort of morning yoga or anything like that right spooky thing is a one six and

five I think there’s 36 hole final I won six and five and so one on the 13th

green I think it was on on the 13th on the 13th and my birthday is the 13th of January wow brilliant one like on the

13th of June or on the 13th home my birthday the 13th so I’ve always said 13 is my lucky thing so if I I

unfortunately had stopped playing in the days that the golf ball companies um when when you won tournaments or

enough tournaments that they made a golf ball with your specific number on it so I’ve never been able to get a golf ball with 13 on it and I mean it went on from

there because you know I was uh you know this is a 1579 that would have been 16

um so the Irish team started sending this over for the living Trophy and I said I went over in April whenever it

was 80 and never went home that’s you know good friends of Roger stayed in the summer over there played the whole

amateur circuit the UK came back occasionally and then at the end of that

year actually I went to South Africa as an amateur God forgotten I nearly forgot about that I went to South Africa I

played the whole Sunshine tour as an amateur never made never missed the cut played like 12 tournaments over the

winter four months or so done in South Africa never missed a cup and I guess when you’re having that

amount of like early success I guess it’s just never a doubt in your mind there that that you can kind of compete

at the highest level and um and turn professional and make a really good career of it it’s just

you’re totally confident I’m only going to be a pro golfer and everything I’m doing you know I’ve

played the big ball all my life and I mean you gotta remember they were rubbish you know the golf balls were rubbish you know you you could stick

your finger in the Titleist and take a take a chunk out of it you know um and um you know dodgy pieces of wood

with plastic inserts and four screws and um you know golf equipment wasn’t

wasn’t the best stuff wasn’t the best but you know I was trying to you know one of one of the things that I got

early was I was always told try and play in the biggest best competition you could uh in any week you know try and

find who you know and look at players who were better than you have always had this instilled in me if you’re going to get better watch guys that are better

than you and see what they’re doing better than you to make you you know better and and say you can only play in

competition against better players to make yourself a good player so I I was

always trying to find the best tournament or the best thing to do in a particular week uh week off no I used to

hack off a lot of people because I turned down a lot of stuff and in the end you know I you know again this is a

a not a terrible thing but just a consequence of you playing and playing in the UK you know at 16 I’ve now

stopped playing you know I won the British boys you know I never went back to defend I had to go but they made me bring the trophy back you know and I

sort of had to turn up but uh going to say it was like Formby you know the next year to hand the pro and you could see

them looking at you going you know with all the all the RNA guys and all the amateur people you know waving your

finger waving their fingers out you’re saying oh oh yeah yeah you should be playing here and they said well no I’ve got you know I’ve got something else to

play and you know I give up and one of the Eisenhower trophy haven’t you then well the Eisenhower hadn’t happened yet

this was probably going to be like October later this year so this was you know halfway through the season I had to

sit down and basically and I mean you know I was doing this I was making these decisions myself as well you know

there’s no managers looking after you an Entourage looking after you you had to sort of see what you wanted to do

yourself so I literally in one Fell Swoop stop playing any boys go for any

you know any any you know boys you senior well Club country

um County Province all this sort of and DB and I and youth Golf and was only now

doing so at 6 16 I was only doing Senior Golf you know so so that was a great relief

in a way because that allowed me to to play in all the biggest best competitions without interference so I

go over to the I’m going to say the British use um I think at the was run around about

the last tournament I played in a Troon and um I remember these officials coming out to

play because you always used to know who the officials the team uh captains for for Walker cup Eisenhower and stuff like

this and my my own team captain was a legendary Irish amateur Joe Carr who who won everything and Joe was great with me

uh and um he he was a really good guide for me and

you know he said oh you’re at some stage we’re going to come out and watch you this afternoon all the four heads of all

the you know the the picking committee and stuff and anyway don’t I chip in at

the first hole they come out to a chip and then the par 3 14th of June headed into 20 feet hallwood had a good drive

up the next good drive up and they chip it you know chip it from down left at 17 hardship I’ve still there nice drive up

18 hit the green and Joe comes out and says I think that’ll do it you know I think that

and and um they said you’re going to be in the Eisenhower now the significance of that although people will know and

but I’m going to tell you anyway is that you most people because the the Eisenhower is the four-man stroke play

Team it was the big thing where the Walker Compass are probably more recognized thing so people tended to do

the Walker Cup first and then you know Eisenhower would come later where I did it the other way around I made it onto

the Eisenhower team uh which was fantastic as it was at Pinehurst Pinehurst two so I made it the

Eisenhower team and then the Walker cup the next year so ours divide faced a little bit but uh

got there in the end but you know the whole thing was at that stage then because I was then on the most Senior

Team the biggest team you could be put on for for GB and I that was me done with all the sort of boys you both and

it was only senior stuff uh after that and you know there’s stuff every week I mean people get there’s matches all the

time all the time all the time the only unfortunate thing at that stage and I still have uh when I

when I speak to young amateurs who are looking to turn pro and stuff that are playing golf for the country is it’s all

match play you know there’s maybe more stroke playing stuff now a few of the Championships are nice strawberry but it

was all match playing all match play and you know I I didn’t want to you know I was going to be a pro there’s no match

playing pro uh Pro Golf and and I only wanted to play a stroke play and that’s what always caused a bit of conflict

with me and my you know my uh you know the officials and stuff and what was it like going over to

Pinehurst for the Eisenhower and then obviously am I right thinking it was Cyprus Point for the Walker cup the following year was that your first taste

of competitive golf in America and your first time State Side seeing the kind of talent pool over there

well well actually strangely no because I’d also gone over early in the year

um to play and something like the north south amateur which at the time was like

the equivalent of their American amateur stroke play and I’m trying to think where it is there’s some very

Philadelphia the north south amateur yeah yeah yeah events in the states I thought that was

a Pinehurst yeah this year is it Pinehurst yeah I think recently oh yeah but it wasn’t there it

was definitely some Parkland golf course somewhere um something at minicada golf club or

something comes to mind um anyway and and it was the who’s who of golf you know how sudden was there JC

or Hulk you know the whole lot of them there so I I uh you know got introduced

to these guys quite early and I ended up playing uh you know a few

other club events you know I went to playing some Club 36 hole or somewhere and had

about three weeks playing in America so that was about it but you know the only time you saw foreign

players was at the British sandwich and so again I go back to the whole

thing is that you know I only played in two British amateurs you know I got to the think about the semi-final of one of

Perth Cole and then got beaten the first round of the shock horror you know I

beat the first round to the next one and at St Andrews and but you know again I was always

turning pro so you know a few months later I was I was off to the Pro game so it didn’t really matter and but those

are the only time you saw the World Elite you know and and but at least I had a

preview of what I knew I had to beat but then it didn’t really matter because I was going off to turn pro and the

American team was you know how how certain whole grave Siegel Jesse eagle

and Bob Twigg I played I think I played with Bob in the last round of it I mean I finished fourth in the stroke you know

because there’s a stroke player element uh the the the Eisenhower is there your three four Man team three best scores to

count every day and I finished fourth in the individual behind I think Hal wanted and Bob 12 was maybe third and then I

was fourth so I had a sort of inkling that I could survive in this in this level

so um you know again these are drivers for people you know if you’re not learning from doing stuff like this and you’re

not seeing what you’re doing you you know again I was a great I I still am a great Watcher of people uh you know

golfers on the Range or seeing what they do to make you better so you know I was going up there I mean TC Chen who then

went off to you know playing the PGA Tour and nearly won the US Open a few years later was there and all that sort

of stuff so and then loads loads of guys that you remember have been either Jimmy Gonzalez from Brazil was there and he

ended up playing the PGA Tour so you you you I got to watch good players

seeing what they were doing so when I went home it wasn’t going to work on what I’m going to do next what’s my next

big tournament I could get into so it was always a learning process for me doing all this stuff and one question

I’ve got to ask you about you know walk a cup at Cypress Point obviously I mean you know we uh a decent portion of our

listenership they’re huge um enthusiastic course architecture and I guess you know in recent years

um you know the rankings of golf courses have become more widely publicized and everyone’s aware that you know Cyprus

Point is almost always in the top two spots but as a you know young 17 year old playing in a in a prestigious event

like the walk cup there when you went there were you aware at the time of just how good a golf course it was and you

were almost on like hello turf or are you just thinking you know this is another day at the office in competitive golf really I’m gonna say a bit of all

of those uh I mean you know in Ireland all the all the me all the four provincial championships are all played

on our greatest links courses you know and I had one at 16 I had won the Irish championship at Royal County down you

know the north of Ireland was a port Rush the uh the site was at the Hench the you know Sligo was played as well

you know and and you were playing all your inter Club matches uh you know we used to play quite a lot at Royal County

down but you’d also play over the winter down to portmarnock and roll Dublin you know you know these were standard golf

courses when you turned up at Cypress Point it was just another you know semi you know an American linksy golf course

I mean I suppose the big eye opener of course was a Cyprus was

and though you’d seen pictures of the 16th um you didn’t you weren’t quite prepared

for when you walked around the corner and stood on the team what sort of fearsome and uh yeah well you know you at those

days you’ve got to remember it was 225 yards and you know that was nearly a drive driver yeah

traffic crappy piece of wood and a dodgy golf ball you know it didn’t it didn’t it didn’t go still Breeze you know just

kind of yeah well actually strange city I digress as

I will do many times off to a little side story but I mean one of the days you had to hit it left onto the little

island to lay up because you you know you gotta remember you didn’t get free golf balls or anything like that and

remember it’s not in there sort of wing and driving on the thing and then reloading and hitting it left and

thinking oh my God I’m not going to lose the third you know we’ve been a bit of awesome practice and

my my headed over to the left hand side so we chipped it on I mean it’s one of the few times I’ve ever seen anyone lay

up on a par three but um you know you didn’t really understand this because we you know we’d play The

Amateur chat you know because he played at Saint Andrews you know and I’d played you mentioned that you know I qualified

for the open year at the time I qualified for the opener Muirfield the one that Tom Watson won um as a 16 year

old amateur and um so you you were you were playing a big tournament on big

golf courses you know the the world’s best golf courses and so going to Cyprus Point was fabulous but wasn’t that big a

deal I mean yes it is now and actually fortunately if the you know when the world opens up a bit I’ve been invited

back to go and play so uh hopefully I’ll I’ll get mine back to and I’ve actually been back before when I played my last

uh Us open at Pebble Beach I I got asked after the golf club and again that’s another story

but anyway that’s another lifetime ago but so you went over when you played but I mean we were going to get hammered I

mean we arrived over and again it’s the who’s who of American Golf how Jay Siegel you know um Geico dick Von tacky

who had actually won that north south amateur uh Ron colemans who was a who was a best Corey paven uh so they’re on

the team I mean we were gonna lot at which we which we did but um you know that was it but you know unturned Pro to

explain you know this is my this is literally my last ish amateur event so you know in

the end it was it was do your best and and um go and get on with me Phillip Walton

and I had a great match on day one we were the lead uh four ball or foursome’s

Mana charge against uh Hal Sutton and Jesse Eagle uh who were the two you know one and two World amateurs not just

American Best you know World amateur best and we were three down after three

looked like you could see everyone looking oh you know anyway we’re clawed our way back and people will know that

the 15th at Santa Pierce Point is also a part three there’s two point threes in a row 15’s a short one and then you walk

around the corner and 16s this one out under the cliff I hit it on the front page of 15 but Phillips already up by

the green as I get up there he holds it from off the green for a two to us to go like two up or something and then um at

16 I uh Phillip heads are just on the standard green and I chip in for a two so we go two two to beat uh after being

three down after three to beat power and J three and two in the end so these

clutch chippings they seem to feature in every story well it was one of the few points we won

that week uh anyway um yeah yeah yeah I mean I’ve always had a decent short game but because usually

you know that was a thing because it’s something that you don’t see I mean I know it’s probably very childish these

days but the best practice you could do was competitive practice and so you know I was lucky one point had a whole bunch

of good Juniors and so we used to play all the time roll around golf you know hit some balls do this but you’d end up

chipping and putting against each other having competitions and so you used to have to be a great chipper and putter

too you know when you’re when you’re 1p bet money um I mean it’s the story of junior golf

isn’t it well and and I mean you got you’ve gone to a ring January there’s four there’s 30 people hitting bulls

with one guy putting and then they all complain that they’re not good on the short games I was born in 86 Bruce you

were born in 95 95. I remember playing a load and load of Junior opens as a kid

and you’d play 36 holes you’d be given five pounds that would cover all your sort of coca-colas and Mars Bars to get

you through the day and then you know afterwards you know my mum would still be on the car park waiting to pick me up and I’d be there chipping in the dark

you know for for you know pound coins and all that sort of stuff and that was the perfect perfect education really he

says that now with a disgraceful short game to be fair so I’ve got a maybe it hasn’t worked out for me but yes you’re

not doing enough of it but if you wanna but you see it now what’s today’s age doing you know the the kind of the Next

Generation uh you know of Ronan Rafferty is probably now spending a lot of time crafting their long irons because maybe

there’s so much emphasis now on you know distance flight control with the ball you know and all the disciplines around

it and I suppose I don’t know if that’s a good robot thing but the thing the thing that gets me is that I’m not too

sure how much of a golf game we learn hitting a ball into a net five even Freddie and a lot of them seem to be

hitting golf balls into Nets and stuff and then rooms and you’re sort of thinking you know what if the weather’s

bad does that mean if you’re leaving the open by two you’re not going to play in the last day because the weather’s bad or something you know you you gotta you

gotta learn how to play in all the elements I mean I remember standing on a range you know 14 you know chucking it

down soaking wet and you know car park empty and you sort of stuff because you

know that’s what you had to do because you know the the whole system seemed to be uh

this is a whole different story but you know the system seems to be wrong you know they’re also molecule cuddled these

days that um you know if the weather’s bad the scoring doesn’t kind of the the standard scratch goes up and all that sort of

stuff well we didn’t have that luxury you know every shark counted and the old days of the handicap system we used to

have to do it in sequences so once you’re getting down from five to four you know you had to do

um seven cards of which two had to be at a new golf course or a different Golf Course under the standard scratch uh and

if you if you look you know going out of your sequence you had to start again and all this sort of stuff to get down and don’t don’t and by the time you know

because when when Philip well I mean I got to scratch for um getting onto the Eisenhower team it

was an honorary position you know you’re you’re uh your county awarded you scratch you didn’t literally get the

scratch you’re a one and depending on what you got awarded and when when I turned when I turn pro

and and Philip and I were playing in The Walker cup I got given plus two for playing plus one for playing in the eyes

nine plus two for playing in The Walker cup and Philip got given plus one for playing The Walker and we were the only

two plus handicappers in the country in the whole country

actually though because yeah I mean this new obviously the New World handicap system’s been introduced fairly recently

and you look at it now and you’re like the idea it’s almost as if what was scratched under the old system which

admittedly was nowhere near as demanding as the system that you’ve just um described Ronan I mean it’s now going to

be a case of like the old scratch was um is equivalent to plus four in new money and you can go and play nine holes

around your home course and they’ll just double that and hand that in his accounting card I think it’s I

understand where they’re going with it and then they want to broaden participation and make the game more accessible but I definitely think you

know if you’re a category one goal for handicaps below five you’re gonna have to be putting a lot of time into the

game anyway and I I don’t know why they’ve they’ve cheapened the lower end of the handicap system as much as they

have because yeah as you mentioned there I think you know playing to a roundabout par away from your home Club first time

seeing the course is probably the best test of a of a good golfer and and that just doesn’t seem to count for anything

anymore now well well back in the day I remember being on the sequence to get down I think from two to one and uh the

roll code you don’t scratch trophy was on you know 36 holes on a on a Sunday at Royal County down and it was the hardest

course in the country and you had to work out whether or not you wanted to go and play because if you broke your sequence you had to start all over again

and I mean in those days if a standard scratch of a golf course was over the

par of the golf course it was difficult you know you went to the living trophy in April par 72 standard scratch 72. you

know you used to you know you you’d shoot 75 72 you know 74 71 and win

uh and be you know six over par something for the for the tournament in those days where today you get your

handicap cut by two you know you suddenly go from you know done and somebody you would think you were good I mean I remember being in the last group

I think of uh you know the that’s how I met Roger Chapman on the First Tee of on

Stanton for the brothers and Trophy and I shot like 72 74 first two rounds and

we were tied lead you wouldn’t you know you wouldn’t you wouldn’t make the cuts and this sort of stuff and you know you I remember I

think I went out of sequence as well shot you know 74 or something in the in

the morning on the Saturday morning and lost my sequence you know devastated that I lost my sequence and you know

wasn’t going to get down to one or something like that and yeah I’m still leading you know and you know you think

and then I shall 69 in the afternoon and ended up winning but um you know you you see it these days

where I say on a windy day you know suddenly the standards some golf course is 76 you know par 71 10 discount 76 and

these guys are shooting 73.74 and think that they’re stars because they’re getting the handicap well it was like

how could you get to plus seven you know back in your day I mean there’s some actual plus seven plus eight handicaps

now and that just did not exist 20 30 years ago as I said you you um scratch

was an honorary position you know well sorry plus wasn’t on reposition so uh you know that was as good as you were

going to get in I mean you couldn’t yeah well literally physically impossible and it is impossible as well I mean you know

there’s not a there’s not a pro with that whether if you know you took Pro handicaps you know you see you know

Terrell and Rory and stuff with the boys you know their their stroke averages what 68 which is probably minus three

and a half for most of the golf courses well you know so how can you tell me some amateurs seven plus seven handicap

yeah they’re great exactly yeah um anyway sorry so what was the question no

no I can’t remember the question was that we’re easy to go that one I think I think that was how you got into golf um so I think it would be

um a kind of neat segue you touched on it there talking about people like Rory and Tyrell and maybe talk about your own kind of Route into the professional game

so you know you played through an era that was you know really exciting like

the you know your peers of the day and out on the European tour I mean as someone who can’t remember the

European tour very well from when he’s very young and some of us before I was born it feels like it was a very very

different European tour to what exists today because you know it really was sort of

you know that was it was it was not that it’s not top tiered golf now I’ve probably got to be careful what I say but you know

playing with the world’s best people like sevi Ollie Faldo all of those guys around it must have been an incredibly

exciting time yeah well when I I mean I turned Pro October 81 uh sevi hit the you know the

circuit run in 76 we remember Burke Dylan and he won the Fallen weekend Holland um you know fouled all term Pro I think

77-78 this photo I think played in the walker uh the Ryder Cup at lythm Disney

77th uh Sandy 70 80 came on tour

um you know so there was a progression here you know Langer was out 79 I think

was when he said so these were because there used to be a great Golf Magazine I

think it was golf Illustrated that used to be out weekly with all the results and all the scores so I remember you

know always rushing down to the golf club on a Friday to read The Golf Magazine to see what all the score was and who was playing and these were and

you know golf wasn’t on TV apart from the open the world match play uh and even when the Masters started coming on

TV there was only the you know the bank nine for an hour and a Sunday was all you saw so it was all still a bit of a

mystery but again you know I played donut South Africa as a pro you know I

played um the open as a 16 year old amateur I also qualified uh again

it’s amazing how you remember stuff amazing how you forget stuff you know I qualified I led the call they used to

have Monday qualifying in those days and I led the qualifiers for the Irish open when I was 14. so I played in the area

because I played I played in two if not three Irish I played in three marriage

opens before I turned Pro uh and uh I also because the six-man team from the

Irish six-man team used to get invited as well so at 15 I was on the six-man team so we played and then at 16 the the

winner of the Irish amateur won so they are the Irish Coast finished on a Wednesday used to start on the Sunday

Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday I won the final on a Wednesday at Royal County down to literally get in the car drive

straight up the Dublin to take it up the next morning and the Irish open at poor morning have an not played a practice

round or been up with it and I made the cut as well so

um uh so I played a whole load of pro stuff you know I knew these guys not not

new as you know still you know Mr Mr Ballesteros so you know you know all that sort of stuff but you know I when I

turned Pro uh I ended up being managed by IMG Mark McCormick’s group but uh

Roddy Carr who was Joe Carr’s son who was my captain the Irish team um managed me and he had me under his

wing and he’d been a pro for a few years and stuff so he got me on with the IMG so he was the one that sort of you know

all the worldly advice I mean Joe Joe had been great have to say uh I think I

mean he was a tough guy in demand lots of you I mean Joe would never let you play a match unless your golf shoes were

clean so Joe would come out you know on the button green and be looking at that level by you know how are you cutting

and I go I’m putting okay so well just make sure that those shoes are clean you know and and all this so it’s like the

sound of that sense and um you know was was demanding you know and but but very respectful and respectful of the fact

because you know people didn’t practice in those days and we went 10 balls before you played you know that was

about as much as they do but for you know Philip and I with Philip Walton and I would be at the practice going for

ours you know we used to go to training camp at Valderrama and fill up an IBI

hitting Bulls all evening and putting and chipping and stuff like that and no everyone else would be you know in the

bar uh drinking and stuff like that so there was a great respect so when Roddy took me under his wing with ing you know

lots of worldly advice on you know how you’re going to be better what are you going to do to be better and it wasn’t a

matter of you know golf isn’t all about hitting golf balls and stuff like that if it was you know there’d be lots of superstars but it was it’s about to me

it’s still all about learning and seeing what you know again go back to the stuff I said earlier you know who’s better

better than you go and watch them so you know Roddy set me up with practice rounds with you know sevi Lyle Fowler

and stuff like that and and I didn’t quite understand those two reasons first of all go and learn you know see what

they’re doing better than you learn from them ask them questions because they’ll tell you pro golfers can’t stop talking

you know we have yes a pro golf requested and particularly you know you’re really you’re really good chipper

sebi you know tell me oh yeah of course I’m a good Champion yeah of course I’ll show you how to you know there’s always

a better you know thing like that but um it was it was also um it was also so

that you wouldn’t be afraid of them when you then get drawn with them in the tournament because you you never used to get drawn

with the top players unless you you started winning tournaments so you were always playing with you know people from

the qualifying school or some other Pro that you’d never heard of on whatever it is and unless you you made the cut and

then got drawn with with somebody good it was your first time playing with these guys so I Roddy didn’t want me to

be intimidated by playing with these guys in the third round of the last round of a tournament so by the time it

then happened and we’re going to say I got my fourth or fifth tournament I’ve made the cut I’m you know top 10 or

something and I get drawn with sevi in the third round you know I’m walking on the team he said you’re right

he wasn’t looking at you yeah he wasn’t looking at you going you know who are you you know I don’t know how you doing

you know you know he was looking at you you know uh doing this and and the same with the rest of them and there was you

know there was a great respect because the the circuit in those days was very

much more like a circus it was a traveling circus you know you never used to go home in between the events you

know because there was nowhere to go you know you used to used to stay out on tour and travel like in a like a big

Caravan you were getting lifts from people you’re getting a train somewhere you know you’re you’re all piling on a

bus going to some hotel to be then taken out on the tournament uh out to the tournament course uh where again you

know no it’s uh you know they so they’re on the 18th green bringing their you know pilot getting their plane readied

you know so yeah do you think that’s changed quite a bit do you think in your day there was more camaraderie between

the players and and and it was more friendly or is that still the case today

European tours have always been friendly the guys are still going out to dinner and stuff today no they might all be

popping on separate private planes when they leave the tournament uh whatever but there’s there’s still a little

chanting and getting together and that was still the case uh that is still the case and was very much there I mean you

you were locked in I mean I remember my first sort of four tournaments was like Tunisia Spain Italy France you know

you’re right on tour for a month you were all you know 50 or 60 of your traveling in this big sort of circus

um to the events so you were always dining together practice rounds meeting for lunch I mean there were no players

tents in those days or anything there was no practice but you know there were no practice polls and tournament practice balls didn’t come in until like

88. so you know in those days they only practice balls you had were from the

bowls that you were using the week before or the ones that you used in practice going so you used to go into

the practice grind and and hit 10 balls and then have to wait for your candy to come back in to hit another 10 so you’d

have time to chat you’re always in the clubhouse because you were fighting with the members of the whatever Golf Club

you’re at to get food they said there were no players lines and so you’re old together uh and and that you know my my

endearing friendship is with Roger Chapman and that’s from over 40 years and and that’s from you know being

friends and playing and practicing together as you know young Pros it seems like from that era there was a

lot of um people speak really fondly of different golfers in that era like everyone sort

of talks you know about how great some you know people have just talked about there and also seems like there’s some pretty strong rivalries you think about

maybe a few years later but thinking about people like you know Nick and Greg and people like that when when you were

out playing with those guys who did you kind of look to and was there anyone where you thought yeah geez this guy can

really hit a ball like I’m almost in awe of this or you know was it

well they all could I mean Greg came over I think right about 79 easy and you’ve got this you know great looking

really fit blonde you know New Zealand uh Australian bloke you hit the ball Miles when those days hit the ball miles

and then it was the arrival of a whole bunch of players coming over I’ll tell you who would have been over with I mean

Freddie couples I mean I remember coming up um did he come over anyway there was a whole bunch you know the

world was changing people were traveling uh our players were going down to South Africa to play for the winter going to

Australia uh to play they were coming over the circus because it’s you know in those days Australia oh it still is a

wrap-around circuit this November December January February so they used to either come to Europe or America so a

bunch of them coming over that’s how I became friendly with Ian Baker French Wayne Riley

um Wayne Grady you know all these guys Mike Harwood and South Houston with Frank Nobles they came over early 80s so

you know um so the the game was changing quite quickly with the world shrinking

tournaments coming on I mean I’m trying to think when I was at 88 was our first sort of over you know non-european

friend I think we went to Dubai and then Asia came on the Johnny Walker and Asia came on the phone yeah linked and all of

a sudden there was this other bit of the circuit to go and that’s why I ended up going to Australia for the winter uh because you know you

needed to find somewhere to play golf because there was more tournaments there was more playing it was more Global uh you

needed to keep playing you couldn’t take three months off over the winter that you used to do in the early days you

used to have to keep playing and the players were getting better and practice and more you know people were going to

the gym would you believe you know people were exercising you know what a novelty

and people were hitting golf balls people were getting better sevi wins the Masters you know the players were doing

well in America founder went over I think 84 ish or something and one in the states

and stuff so now the whole game was getting more Global getting better players were getting better so to to

succeed you had to join I mean the whole thing about golfers if you’re if you’re standing still you’re going backwards so

you had to join them and so you know you ended up playing more playing Alternatives I mean one

year I played like 42 tournaments that’s nuts that’s huge I literally didn’t go

home you know and and you’re doing your laundry you know you used to get to a hotel on a Monday and basically hand

them your suitcase and say please launder that you know and can I have it in my room yeah

famous isn’t he for playing almost every available event today Sun JM will play

like he doesn’t mind just hopping from town to town on the PGA and I think I think in a good year he’ll rack up like you

know 38 39 starts so I mean 42 that’s just that’s insane and that’s and that’s

where you know no private planes or no you know it was China and getting you know driving to

tournaments you know all this sort of stuff um but it was you know it was great and and you know great learning experience I

mean I’m talking about this now and I’m sort of actually remembering it a bit more I mean you’ve asked me a question that’s got me talking on this on this

subject but um you know it was great there’s some great learning and the players today have no

clue you know that you know and and the other little things you know if you should get when when you used to get

given golf balls you know you turn pro and all of a sudden some company will give you a title that’s Dunlop and those

days um would give you go folks and whatever this you should get three golf balls and

if you made the cut you got another three oh my word you know and you had to

really careful if you went to a difficult golf course that you didn’t lose golf course I mean that’s why you

know people never used to lose golf balls in those days because you couldn’t afford to you know because you used to nearly have to play all 18 holes for the

ball and a balata in those days you shred them as well wouldn’t you you could shred them quite quickly yeah yeah well

that was the thing but with with titles and those days oh but let it go if you had a you know there was a real problem

when Square grooves came in you know ping ping um berylliums and stuff like that you’d be afraid to hit a wedge

because that was a golf ball gone you know you’d be taking you’d be picking this stuff off to try and make it flatter and all this and one below the

golf industry was just yeah under threat that’s just incredible well I played for

GB and I down at Ferndown we had a thing the the Hennessy cognac cup great event

little team event uh against the world and so there was maybe four or six teams

or something down at it and um I remember the the the gonna say take

this reference and come up to me and say you know had I got my had I got my three balls and did I want a new glove

you know I’ve been able to try on a new Love and that was my glove for the four

rounds you know and all that sort of stuff it was great that was good and I guess I mean look at looking forward ahead just to

yeah I guess dive into that subject a little bit more do you think tiger could you really boil it down to sort of his

impact and how golf ended up becoming you know getting to this point where you know even amateurs are open qualifying

were being given you know new shoes a couple of gloves dozens of balls um you know in the mid-2000s I think I

think one of these things is it’s a bit like you know technology and stuff that changes the game drastically you know

Pro V1 come in and suddenly the game you know graphite shafts the length of gratified shafts you know Titanium come

in you know there’s game changes on and the game was changing pretty quickly

um uh in those days you know you you go away for a winter and it’d be a new bit of Technology from the states and stuff

I mean you even get it for another six months in Europe but you know that you’d be reading about these new clubs or

drivers or balls or whatever it is that we’re coming so uh I mean you know when was it so

means tiger didn’t turn pro to about 97 or something or in the 1996 yeah so I

mean ideally retired by then that’s how long ago that was um and so you know sevi was the first I

think big kicker you know he introduced you know hit the swashbuckling where he

you know a new generation to the game you know Greg introduced all the young Australian players to the game you know

they’ve been you know Jack was still playing and and gonna do you know Johnny Miller 74 or 76 you know all that sort

of stuff you know his run you know this blonde bombshell shooting 63 every time he was playing and so there was always

something to kick you on about the game that I said you were we were talking about failed online

was when and then there were winning Majors they were going to play because you know up until I won the odd sorry I

know I’m going to brag here you know up until I won the order of marriage you know the only major I played in was the Open Championship and that was you know

my first major uh outside the open was 1990 . and you did on a really good

spell for a long time haven’t you so and I guess was that just the nature of the way the events were selected in the

states to get into things but what I’m saying is that you know these guys were playing in the states in the US PGA and

the US Open so there was always that driver in the background of that if I do

well this is one you know this is what I’m going on for and I’ve always been quite driven in that way and so

um you know I always had this goal that I wanted to get into all these you know this was this was the the realm I wanted

to get into so um you you watch them play on TV you know more and stuff was going to be on TV you

went to watch tournaments you you played with these players and then the next week they were going off to a major and

that was the driver for me so you know there was very quick successions in the game to lead you to where you were going

but uh you know still it was still a bit of a thing because I remember getting you

know when when I uh so I won my first thing was uh Aaron what we want the

Dunhill in 1988 at St Andrews which is a great turn of a team event three-man team and myself even Darcy desmith beat

Australia in the final on the Sunday and we won and I mean We Were Heroes and uh

and revered an hour and stuff and then I went free from home on the Sunday night and I played in this great little

tournament I wish to do it now which you qualified for throughout the season for making birdies and Eagles in the top by

30 players went to playing this thing called the equity and law challenge at Royal midsery

and it was 54 holes and only the only scores that counted were birdies and

Eagles you couldn’t lose a point you could only gain and I remember I made 21 I made like 19

birdies and an eagle and 54 holes and won the tournament was my first sort of solo success having just won the weekend

before the Dunhill with Ireland and then going to the tournament the next

week and I was now getting a dozen bows and two gloves

you keep linking it back to this Ronin I don’t know I I think there’s an obsession in there have you not got

enough golf balls at home now is that it keeps coming up now yes no well no I

mean no I don’t even play tournaments these days and I still get 24 dozen and twels

Supply golf ball for the manufacturers 24 dozen isn’t it that’s like what they give you and you think you’re going back

to tournaments a year and getting a sleeve yeah I mean the chucker might

like confetti these days I mean you know and you know what’s even terrible I mean the guys don’t even hit it in the rough

at a practice right they don’t even bother looking for you know where we’d we’d have hoped around and found it you know you know none of this five minute

stuff but um he’s been there till dusk she’s trying to just trying to find it yeah

and so you don’t you don’t really realize that it’s changing but it just does and then

yeah and then when you enter the Masters again you know I’ve arrived over to Augusta uh I’ve actually played the week

before that I’ve read the week before at Bay Hill was was was my sort of first introduction to the states and they were

played at this stage had already played things like odd things like the internet National and the Canadian I didn’t play

in the end but the Canadian open always wanted me to go and play and all this sort of the Irish connection he always

wanted myself and David Frady to go and play so I played in a few events in the states and you know you were playing I

mean I won the Venezuelan open and stuff quite early you know you’re playing a bit in South America and there was

always you know the I’d been to Australia at this day South Africa over the winter so you were well traveled and

you know you’re going down to play but I arrived at Bay Hill and you know you were given a key to your locker it was

all fantastic walking and there was three dozen bows and like six gloves in

your locker and it was like and you were like storing them away saying oh I’ll put I’ll put a dozen away I won’t need

those and I’ll take two gloves and I’ll use those next week you know and all this sort of stuff and then you arrived at Augusta and there’s four dozen in

your locker and it doesn’t play you know and there’s reps trying to give you a year and stuff like that that was you

know it was Paradise and you and and then but again you know I’m having a bit of a laugh here but you know one of

these things is because you got so little when you provide on the European tour and these guys were given so much

that it was like yeah I want to play in America because you could always be here you know get all these channels get all these companies all these tour fans you

know all the Tour Vans all the wedges and Putters that we had golf balls to try gloves to wear and stuff like that

was just like it was it was like a kid in a candy shop time I mean not wanting

to generalize too much but from from what you’re saying there only it sounds like you know this recent argument about

obviously there’s been news around the PGA Tour acquiring the stake in the European tour and a seat on the board

and you know whether the PGA Tour is just vastly outstripping the European

tour in terms of prestige or prize money but but to an extent it seems like you know from what you’re saying there that

it’s maybe always been the case that the the there’s been more money and kind of more kind of lavish

um accessories going along with the PGA Tour even from you know your days playing in the 80s there was it seems

like there was you know a lot more they’re in the way of free equipment and um you know sponsors benefits that kind

of thing well America is all sort of in a way being bigger than better you know you know the stories of you know uh uh

you know I I own a yeah I own a ranch my mine’s three thousand acres your mine’s

thirty thousand acres you know the bigger the bigger the better uh in the States but you know I think it’s one of

these things that’s like you know what what pushes you along as a pro golfer of course prize money does prestige does

beating the best in the world so when the world golf championship came along I think they were the big push because

suddenly the prize money in those was more than the majors now the majors of course more prestigious and you’d always

want to win a green jacket or a clever jug but in the end you know if you went and won a World Golf Championship and

won a million dollars and you know whatever it was 19 what was it about 19

99 was about the First World Golf Championship the winner got a million dollars no the winner of the open only

got two hundred thousand yeah and so not even probably in those days

200 000 so there was there was always this sort of thing about uh you know the role in the states and players we’re

going to plan them the best in the world going to play in them so you know what what drove you as a pro golfer you turn pro to make money and play you know

whatever this is so it’s always in the back of your mind that you wanted to plan the biggest events and with the

most money so you know the states always had that and there was always this thing where in the background that’s certainly

for the foreign players certainly from the warm country surrogant in Australia

they were they these guys were only using the European tourists of stepping stone to get to the pediator

and so once they started traveling more and playing more and getting into the majors and doing well in the world

ranking came in and stuff the more that these players sort of came and went you

know they played for a few months and all of us then they’re on the PGA tour and they were winning millions of winning tournaments and winning majors

and winning this and that and so that this was what building up on the tour I’ve never quite understood why I mean

it’s only known that we’re having big terms minis Rolex events I mean what they’re playing Saturday last week for

what eight million that’s a regular the winner it’s a regular PGA Tour event in the

week I mean you see the greater Milwaukee opens nine million you know and so you can understand why these days

that they’re not traveling well well the players are not traveling again see why Rory and the others want to play in the states I mean there’s always a bit of a

thing where you want to you know support your home turn and stuff but you’re you know the the game is so more Global at

the moment that these guys are chasing the money um I mean I remember that when the when

the first million dollar classic came in you know a million dollar prize fund back in the uh I think it was probably

the late 80s was a ginorm I mean you know when I played in my first European

Tour event the prize money in Tunisia what the total prize money was a hundred grand winning prize was ten thousand and

you know my fourth or fifth tournament out I finished fourth and I won 900 quid

you know it’s like it’s so far it’s like night and day from from what we’re talking about today and I seem to

remember when we had Clayton he was talking about Portugal wasn’t he Bruce with you know similar stuff in terms of

prize money that’s and then you can’t blame them can you really I mean was was was Jacqueline I

might be a game wrong was Jacqueline the first to play out in the states quite heavily or yeah he was one well when he won the

open U.S open at Hazeltine he was out but you know Easter house as well uh was out there and then they used to come

back and play a bit on the tour but he was the first one that sort of made Global money but you know there wasn’t

any money to be planned for in Europe and stuff and and actually strange in the midst of all this you just reminded

me of something it used to be quite the the the the tour used to run all these Monday programs to sort of keep the

players occupied and you used to I mean this is the early early to mid 80s and

there was about a dozen of them most of them in the UK but some of them in Europe and you used to get 200 pounds to

play in them you know first prize was maybe a thousand and second was 500 and then everyone else got 200 pounds or 200

pounds more than paid for your week on tour so you used to the they used to get

great Fields praying at them because players were basically making their expenses for the weekend if you had a

good you know shot 64 on summer you won a grand or a grand was more than you got for finishing fourth in the tournament

the week before you know so you know and they’re saying it goes on

but I mean no you know guys drop 200 it’s good on the floor and don’t even pick it up you know so you know the game

has changed completely uh long but I mean for the for the good you know it’s sounding like I’m sort of reminiscing

here with a chipping machine but I’m not at all you know it was what it was in the days and you know the the players

the good players who were playing in Europe savvy’s photos and and language and stuff they were pushing the game up

in Europe so the prize money was getting bigger the game was getting more Global so we were getting more sponsorship and

the game was getting bigger we then start winning the Ryder Cup and uh in 85

and and Beyond the game kicked on again the players are traveling they’re winning Majors the game kicks on again

and all of a sudden everything every season there’s something that’s moving

the game forward it happened to move forward an awful lot quicker in America particularly the

price one because they’re very much you know tournaments were fighting against each other uh for having bigger and

better tournaments bigger and better Fields where that didn’t seem to be a thing in in the States you know you used

to go on playing tournaments because you like them you know one of the one of the nicest tournaments we used to play on on

tour was the Jersey open because Jersey is a beautiful place it was one of the few tournaments that I used to travel to

you know on a Monday and and then stay on the Monday afterwards because there was a lovely Island to be on it was one

of the worst prize monies I mean we used to only player for 150 200 000 or something but he didn’t care because it

was a beautiful place concert Sierra you know not the best golf course in the world but it was a lovely place to be up

in the up in the Swiss Alps and so he used to go and enjoy a weekend you know up in the sky I mean I ended up

winning the tournament down the line I mean it’s a beautiful place you know absolutely fantastic but I mean but you

know what I mean it’s it’s just that it wasn’t the prize money wasn’t the end and end all of everything uh and then

and then suddenly you know so these world golf championships come in and there were millions of dollars and so

everything got operated and whatever it is but you know it’s taken a little bit of a while but if you see that

um they you know even a small tournament I mean it’s really hard to think but I mean up until a lot of years ago they

divide as a classic was one of the best tournaments to play in because of where where it is and at the time of year but

had literally the worst prize money on tour but they realized that they they didn’t

have to have big prize money to attract the players because the players went because they wanted to go and it’s not

until well it’s not until others Emirates came in Qatar out Saudi you know uh Abu Dhabi

and stuff they started coming in but they started vying with each other for players and all of a sudden to attract

players you have to have better prize money and then so that’s why that increases that then increases everyone

else and um you know off the run so the good thing at the moment is it looks like it’s an upward spiral for the

players I mean they’ll end up being it’ll end up having to stop somewhere because you know if imagine if you

suddenly come up um and sponsored the 10 million tournament or something and you know half the half

the world’s players didn’t turn down you know you’d be fairly hacked off so the you know there’s something has to be

done about it attracting players to to events that have some sort of prestige

because you know they they you know the majors are there the world golf championships are there and I hear that

there’s a sort of meeting of getting the world’s best players together and a bit more of a league and stuff like that you

know that might be attractive but then you know who are the attractive players at the moment Still taggers Still Phil

you know they’re they’re towards the end of your career you need new players yeah I don’t know it’s just one of these

things but you know the game has become so more Global that I think that people

once the world’s in a better place I think people will come out of the woodwork and want to have big Standalone

tournaments to attract the best players [Music] yeah media media is so easy these days

you know the the they can streamline events on your phone people can sit and watch you can click in and watch a

player you can pay to watch your player follow a group all this sort of stuff you know this is coming in the game ago

yeah just um just dive into your European tour career a little bit more because

um am I right thinking that you know pretty much from the moment you turn pro

you were a kind of a regular feature and top 30 player top 20 player on the European tour from the get-go I guess

for all the reasons you outlined earlier um but you didn’t get your first win

till May 1989 in the Italian open after which they just started coming thick and

fast and you racked up loads between 89 and and the early 90s um what do you

think made a difference there in terms of going from being like a regular feature to to winning events and um

going on and making the Ryder Cup team and so on uh two things happen quite quickly

together uh one was that I took myself off to uh Australia for the winter

87 88 um you know a lot of the Australian guys were over they kept saying come down and

play of course there’s great events all this sort of stuff so um what went down and played there and I

mean I’ve always been a sort of Fairly heavy bloke and um

diet was never the best thing for me and whatever it is so uh I went down trained

and exercised I mean there’s there’s great food down there there’s fresh food there’s fresh fruit you know there’s no because it’s hot and stuff you don’t end

up eating crab basically chocolate crisp biscuits all that stuff you’re drinking lots of water

um and looking after yourself so I started training playing more you’re playing and practice and stuff and then you know

even in those days you couldn’t you know you couldn’t afford to come home and there wasn’t much Point coming home for six weeks for the for the break so I

ended up staying over there for Christmas and year which was great in hindsight you’re playing practice in all

winter instead of coming back here and doing nothing and then you know I won I won the um I think it was the South

Australian Open how is this for a one is it I I win a tournament that I was disqualified from how about that how

does that work talk us through that one right right very very quick that seems

like an appropriate story very quickly on this one if I can in those days in Australia you had to register for a

tournament by five o’clock on a Wednesday uh or if you didn’t pre-registered and sort of ticked the

box and sort of signed in um they automatically disqualified you for but this tournament that we went to

play in was a was a Wednesday Saturday event and I never thought about it so I

had a day off and I thought I’ll go out for the program tomorrow and I’ll register before playing and I get a phone call if I pass by to say Rona

sorry you know you’ve not registered you’re disqualified um but you’re all right because one of the Prime players as well hasn’t done

done it so we’re we’re going to sign it for you but you know be out for the program or whatever it is so

um I I then went and won the trip and another prize given that you know the sponsor the guy the fellow promoted the

tournament who’s beside me nudging me saying he said you know don’t mention the fact that you got the score you know you were technically disqualified and

stuff like that so anyway so I won the tournament that I got disqualified from uh and then we had the winter off uh

pride and practice and you know you’re playing with good players you know we had rented a house up in the open the

Gold Coast where where all the best you know finchy Peter senior Peter Fowler

you know all these guys were a little so you played golf at Roger Davis you know you were playing golf with with in Good

Company every day and so that when you get back onto the circuit when it started again you know middle of January

you were just off and running and I won this the New Zealand match play and I

want three can’t think of the other one uh and so I went back to Europe started playing well

uh we won the Dunhill so Equity a lot of that thing at the end of 88 I was maybe

15th in the order of America something new the next season lots of top tens to start with uh and then we go to Italy

and I shoot 65 in the last round when the Italian opened and um you know that that was it it was

off and running week or so later Faldo and I had a bit of a shootout at Woburn for the British Masters bullshop the

tournament record he beat me by two but we both played the general record by about five

um week later a few weeks later I get beaten in the playoff for the Dutch the

last about a night where you’ve nine nine playoffs I was with you with nine hole playoffs

yeah yeah yeah I think it’s still the longest playoff the European tour oh probably even in the in the world but

certainly European tour yeah nine-hole payoff for kenamar for the Dutch and then the very next week I shoot uh 129

over the weekend and win the Scandinavian and is that just success kind of breed success and you’re really

confident and and well golf is a game like that

yeah all this sort of stuff about saying this old skill and whatever it is yeah it is yeah but if you haven’t got the

confidence to do it um you know you you’re never going to that’s why you see so many players

coming in out of the game and also win and then disappear and all this other stuff and and a lot of it has to do with

how you handle the aftermath of winning and what’s what’s happening with it because all of a sudden you know you the

time’s not your own you want to be interviewed pre-tournaments and everyone wants to speak to you and you’re going

to get a major than those you know that was a writer cup year 89 so like for May I’m number one in the order of marriage

so there won’t you know they want to fit me from my clothing for the Ryder Cup in September and I won’t have any of it you

know they’re all there’s a tent every week for you know to get in get measured and whatever and I won’t go in because

you know I’m saying well I’ll wait till I’m on the team and all that and they’re sort of trying to tell me oh well the gear needs to be made in London advance

so that you know once you meet the team in those days because it was about a month in advance you could send all the

gear to try and make sure that it fitted and all this sort of stuff and I wouldn’t have it and I was I mean I was

just Keen at playing the tournaments and doing well you you’re playing in the open and suddenly you know I got invited

to the world match play as well and uh and then you know invites from Japan Australia South Africa other events

going to think corporate stuff you know and and so you know that’s what happens

when you start winning tournaments and and again sometimes people don’t understand it I mean it’s great saying

success it’s great saying prayer doing this and you know it’s different these days where there’s lots of media and

they’re all going off and being interviewed and they’re all doing this but it you know it it takes its toll and

you can see from players where the the they can’t handle the situation and you need to have a good strong management

team behind you and you need to be strong yourself and say no you know you need to take it take your hand up

sometimes and say no which in those days was difficult to do because it was all new you know

everything was new all these tournaments you were going on to where where only stuff that you’d read about not not ever

played in so it’s exciting to go to Japan for three weeks and then fly down to Australia for two and then go home

for a week and then fly back to Australia for a one and then go to South Africa and come back to Europe and go to

Dubai and go on this you know was dead exciting uh and stuff but you know it it

takes this toll as I said but well then you’ve got you’ve got to manage your schedule then after that because all of

a sudden you know 1990 I’m now I’m now in all four majors you know and I’m also wanted

um I’m also wanted to you know I’ll win the ornament which I’ll continue on the year I went and failed a Ram at the end

of the year and win the older American so you’re you’re being invited to the states

um you know you can play in seven tournaments on invites uh in America you want it I’m sure you wanted Japan you’re

in the four majors uh and you’ve got to try and do a circuit around these sort of things which of course hack people

off because you you you I always wanted the major to

be my third tournament you know that a lot of players like take the week off or maybe play the week before a major and

whatever but I I always quite like playing a lot of golf so I didn’t want to go into one of these things cold

because it was all new and so you know and again people forget

nobody was exempt in America like they are today from the world ranking and winning tournaments or

whatever it is everyone was looking for an invite so I’m vying for an invite along with Savvy Langer Elizabeth you

know all and and a couple of Japanese guys and a few Australians Greg and Wayne gradient Baker Finch

and so I I luckily tournaments like Bay Hill were very keen to invite European

so I got invited to bear house so was Houston because it was the shell used to open so they were quite Keen to invite

Europeans over so I got a few starts beforehand I mean very few Stars I mean I ended up playing most of my normal PGA

Tour events after a major because everyone went home and they were delighted that you stayed because I ended up playing like uh Atlanta classic

MCI Heritage the international at Castle Rock up on the up in the hills in

Colorado uh Castle Pines I think it was uh and so it was it was very different trying

to get into to get into these events and playing these things and of course you were there no missing tournaments that

you played in for you know 10 years in a row you know Portuguese opened Italians

open friends Irish opens you know the Irish open used to be uh all around the the US Open in June and those days you

know and I ended up missing a couple of Irish opens because I’d stayed in America which of course totally hacked

them off the fact that I’ve been home to play in my home tournament that they felt it was a god-given right then I

should but things were different you know you had to manage your schedule there weren’t private planes where you

dived on on a Sunday night and were Landing you know first thing in a Monday morning you had to wait for a schedule

plane on a you know you couldn’t get out on a Sunday night you had to wait till a Monday you didn’t get into Tuesday you

know all this sort of stuff and then you know I was trying to give myself always the best opportunity of doing

well so you know I ended up staying in America or you take a week off because you’d then have three or four other big

tournaments in a row afterwards leading to another major because yeah you know the agers were one after the other June

July August and so you were you were going to the state you know you’re in the states in April uh I mean I turned down the

players twice would you believe I believe really was it just not as big an event then

well no it used to be in March like it’s gone back to no of course you know we we’ve known for up until then you didn’t

play any golf over the winter and it was literally going to be your first I mean the European tour back in the day didn’t

used to start till April you know Easter and and so and so you weren’t going to

turn up at Sawgrass have not played for six weeks at your first year yeah

I imagine you know and and and also you know I turned down the million dollar classic

twice how’s that it didn’t fit in they say because you had the yeah you’re you’re over to the

states for two or three weeks in April then you were back to Europe to play May then you were back to the US Open uh in

June for for a couple weeks this is then back to you know for the open in July then back to the states in August for

the uspga and so by the time that you know you it was a real mess to try and do a schedule

and again it’s easy today I think you know 20 minutes after they’re off the 18th green they’re on a plane well it’s

built for them isn’t it the routing of where they go from tournament to tournament the swings

um and even the nature of the feeder tours and everything kind of cater for it but you were kind of what you’re saying there is it’s it almost is a bit

of a it’s a bit of a watershed moment for the tours I think between you know European and across the across the ponds

of states which is a pretty neat segue into the the Ryder Cup so obviously you’ve had Eisenhower trophy at

Pinehurst you’ve played Walker cup at Cypress and then you know the big one now is that about the Belfry

um yes which is a little little bit of a UK uh course architecture sort of pun

but but it was a massive event right that would have been first time that was aired I think in the States on TV like

before they’d never aired the Ryder Cup you know overseas um the teams were incredible when you

look at the sheet yeah I mean it was great as well um playing in the Ryder Cup I mean I you

know I’d been on the team I mean I’ve got this lovely piece of glass I mean the amount of stuff you get given then

was incredible I had to think the amount of stuff you get given no but uh I’ve got this beautiful piece of cut glass

that we got given by you know the the tourist summary where it’s the team in the order of of how they made the team

and the on the order of merits and I was number I’m number one wow you know but

I’d be number one the whole season and so I knew I was going to make the team eventually get to try on all my

gear and get fitted out and whatever it is uh and um you know you arrive up at The Belfry and it’s and then it’s very

different because um you know we used to play European tournament European tour events in the

continent where you’d have you know a couple hundred people watching me in France or some remote course and you

know Tunisia you’d arrive up and the only people watching you know a few guys and holidays you know a few tourists

that were out in the holiday and so all of a sudden you’ve turned up with the Belfry there’s there’s only 12 of you

um playing a sort of four ball foursome for you know a little practice game with 55 000 people following you in one one

match wow and and huge grandstands you know this was you know in a way nearly

bigger than the open because at least the open when you the gallery were spread out you know there’d be 55 000 people but to be

all like watching the good players and all spread out around the golf course well here you are on the First Tee with

you know sevi and Langer and Faldo playing a practice round and 55 000

people here deep TD Green World of all people you know and and and and and this tight as well you know the whole way up

the whole right along the edge and you’re thinking if I get one slightly off The Binding I might take somebody’s head off you know

the people will know what binding was do you know what binding was do you uh you’re too young do you know what

running around this round the head wasn’t it the driver yeah yeah

however wood was attached to a shaft in those days but anyway

um but you know so it was very different and and you know lots of eagles on the

team lots of big players and although you were not you know I was number one and all this sort of stuff from the tour you know I said there were still Savvy

photo you know lazarbo Langer on the team you know and so you were like in the next division but below them uh and

they kind of sort of leaders and the Talisman really they were were they the ones kind of giving the team talks or well the good thing was that you know

and and I mean fabulous and I have a huge amount of respect for Tony Jackson he was a fantastic captain and leader

he’s having to deal with egos huge Eagles I mean sebi wanted to run the whole thing

Nick was doing this thing you know Nick Nick was you know out on the Range working and stuff uh being very

methodical Bernard the same you know Bernard’s out there with a uh you know a a temperature gauge and a compass and

plotting his way what he was going to do on the golf course um elizabel had the best

you know to 10 feet from 220 yards out you know

beautiful short game as well you know you you had all sorts of things going on and then there was us you know Christy

Michelle Gordon Brown Jr who God I can’t believe Junior’s dead savvy’s dead yeah

uh Christy you know my partner and the the Saturday morning forces Chrissy’s

dad as well God God that’s terrible to think of the reminder isn’t it you’re right yeah when

you say it like that um but um you know you’re you’re playing all these

little nine-hole practice matches and Tony’s moving people around but there’s a few set in stone games already you

know he said he’s gonna play with Elizabeth that’s a set and stone you know Nick and faud uh Nick and woozy

were were a team you know they’re set in stone so you knew there wasn’t a lot of room to get in for repairing

um and you know Tony has sort of said look you know you’re not gonna play every day I’m gonna move you around I’m

gonna see how you do see who you’re comfortable with and I end up playing with with Langer you know in the in the

foursomes on the first match uh which was you know a place of honor you know I

thought because um you know Bernard won majors at this time you know win an order match winning tournaments around the world and so so

he’s guiding there and you know he’s my sort of hand in the shoulder um so the player uh we got beaten you

know you haven’t got enough hours in the day for me to tell you that story no no I’d be interested

it’s too long a story but anyway I always sort of say that uh Bernard

Bernard Bernadette had had some sort of plotted everything around so it’s a cold Misty morning and stuff and and we’re

walking down to the First Tee and and um oh no I can’t I can’t go and uh

we’ve heard so much about Langer and there’s obviously that famous Monty quote about the sprinkler head is it

have you measured it from the front or the back of the of the spring glad so I’d love to get your take well the

things that matter true and look it ends up I end up hitting the opening tee shot um when I wasn’t quite expecting to and

um and we’re playing Mark calculator who’d won the open at Troon in July and Ken

green I don’t know if people remember Ken green quite famous wearing a green glove and green shoes and stuff like that and um

calcus you know it’s massive you’ve got to understand this is like a TV production show that goes on to me

people think that the writer comes over by the players it’s not it’s over by television you know and and there’s like a big TV production you know your names

code there’s a The Parting of the crowd and you’ve moved down to the First Tee and 55 000 people are there in the chair

and there’s cameraman diving on the ground in front of your cameras and your side you know there’s there’s 2 000

cameras on site your cameraman on site there’s 150 TV cameras you know you’re

live to a billion people globally uh and they’re and they’re watching every move and you walk down on the first team and

it happens very quickly you know it’s all done but you know ivor’s on the T and he’s looking at you and I’ve got the

ball in my hand and so he knows you’re gonna edit and and there’s a nod and a wink and it’s okay guys and it’s you

know actions you know lights actions yo go like this sort of thing I said keep

going you know the the TV thing and um calcium holds the head cover off this

office driver and he’s got a metal driver he’s got a TaylorMade Burner I mean we’d only read about these in the

magazine you know we didn’t know they actually existed you know and I’m like God

you know this here sort of thing you know

the shuffle Shuffle doesn’t need blue to her one down in the middle of the Fairway absolutely rips one down there

on the T rolling and rafting I’m shaking in my boots um absolutely quick the only thing as uh

hope you don’t mind me saying the only thing that’s not moving on my biles and

anyway I end up you know uh you know deep breaths you know shove the tea in

the ground the ball sits on the T which is a as a result you know my hands are shaking so much I sort of take a few

practice swings and it’s deathly silence and I’m standing there thinking oh God you know any one of these practice wins

just keep going you know just keep you know just keep going backwards and make a swing anyway I make the fastest

quickest way man I’ve not got a long swing anyway I make the fastest quickest Wing you’ve ever seen in your life or

get it I get it back to about my knees and I start trying to have a go at hitting it and this thing comes straight

off the toe and and there’s a tree about a big big oak tree about a hundred yards

off the first hit the Belfry and this thing’s going straight at the tree and all I can think of is that can I can you

imagine you’re opening tee shot hitting the tree and going bump and come and roll and back to the front of the tea

and Bernard walking up sort of eight yards and having to hit a second shot you know you just all this nightmare is

going through your mind anyway it manages just a clip a few leaves as it

goes past it and finishes in a bunker uh about 220 yards in the left-hand side of

the ferry now in my one of the nice things is about a month after the Ryder Cup you get sent all

these really nice bits and pieces as well you get this album of you know the

Ryder Cup and team pictures and all this stuff but you also get an album of you at the Ryder Cup you know stuff for you

you know standing talking to somebody picking your nose scratching your backside you know looking away in the wind and all that sort of stuff and you

also get two videos you get an official video Ryder Cup video and you also get a

video of you still scratching your ass and picking your nose and

and so this arrives so a click on my video and um you see I’ve got to see

this opening t-shirt you know did it did it look and feel as bad as it as it was anyway yeah I’m waving and smiling down

to the First Tee my name’s code I wave and smile I Peg it down I take a practice swing I hit the shot oh and

there’s a few holes and groans and a clap and a chair and we go off and you know Bernard’s got his arm around my

shoulder and all this sort of stuff and the chair and they’re going that’s great cameramen are all over the place and I’m smiling and waving away and I’m thinking

that never happened I was crapping myself you know let you know I mean you know I might have been

smiling what color was gritted teeth you know it was like this I’m thinking I’m so nervous Bernard hold on to me and

he’s like whispering in my ear and they’re all cheering and all I can think of is that hey it didn’t hit the tree

and this ball is you know in the bunker down the left-hand side I’ve never been more delighted with a shot in my life

um I’m thinking of more results the tea and

they never have to do that yeah anyway and we’re we’re we lose the first three holes we’re like three down after three

and ended up getting beaten two in one but you know I I can’t I you know I you know Bernard played terrible and we

could beat you know that’s that’s how I always say is he the is he the meticulous sort of

calculated my other um you know kind of his build to be you

just reminded me of the calculation and we get on to the fourth team we’re three down after three and I pull out the

drivers of power five and I pulled the driver and burn it to Ronan what are you doing oh so then well

driver burned well and that was Pete Coleman remember Pete Coleman who carried Kelly for for longer P Coleman’s

and Pete Pete High fires it to the bunkers and I’m looking okay geez Bernard I’m nervous already you know

we’re we’re three down let me let me go you know and and oh it’s 228. why don’t

you hit a you know a three-word done sure what the fungus with three down you know let me hit the driver you know no

wrong anyway isn’t he bloody right I hit a three-word dinosaur that he hits a known for I

don’t know and then he was a performer and I hope I hope but it’s gone you’ve been right you’ve been annoying when

your partner’s right that’s the noise anyway but it was good you know we we

didn’t we didn’t uh we didn’t play well and we ended up getting beaten in the next day I knew I wasn’t going to play

in the afternoon uh and so that was fine uh and so the next morning Tony had decided to put

Christy Junior and I out together because he wanted to do the whole Irish thing you know lots of Ireland in the UK

Birmingham you know there’s a lots of support and whatever it is again we we didn’t quite well we didn’t well I

remember hope missing between us we missed about three four Footers and five holes to lose holes and then I’m gonna

say we ended up also getting beaten like two and one or something I then also

knew I wasn’t going to play in the afternoon uh as well and so come Sunday

night little thing you know today because of the way the play is just slow and stuff

the captain ends up putting the team in before players finished for all these afternoon matches and stuff in the same

as the case for the singles these days where he’s having to put it in for TV and all that sort of in those days you

used to have about an hour after the end of play before you had to put in a team it was announced and stuff so we have a

bit of a huddle uh Tony’s Tony’s in there sevi’s jumping around uh and everyone’s having their

moment and Tony puts his arm around me and again great great team manager Tony was during the week he was very

good at telling you what was going to happen what was it what was he thinking uh and how he wanted things to go on so

he’s put his arm around my shoulder and sort of said you know how how are you feeling you know Tony I see it feels on

playing okay you can’t help that my partners have let me down but you know hey ho

and

and he said look I’m going to put the number four can you give me a point and you know number four in the right

help even today is a big draw a number you know you’re expecting the lead from

the front and stuff and on my chest it’s out and and who do I get because because Chrissy and I have also played calcobeki

and green and also if no who do I get drawn out against calcavecchia for the third time I’m fed up watching this guy

Shuffle Shuffle and blooter this metal we’re down everywhere just driving me nuts and stuff like that anyway we have

a great game one up I’ll square one down one up Oscar with you know the whole way around never a hole in front of it I win

like the the 14th to go back to all square We’re Half 15 half 16.

uh 17 state dog leg part five and the 18th inside you and so on when you’re on

the 17th T you’re looking straight up to the halfway up the Fairway at 18 to the green and of course you you you know

you’re going to be going that far you know you’re going to be on on the 18th as sevi’s playing the opening game

against um azinger I think it was amazing yeah azinger has duck hooked it off the 18th

into the water but is getting a drop on a duck Island that’s in the middle of

the water at the Belfry there’s this island with this little duck house on it he he gets his drop that’s on the side

sevi’s in the green in the Fairway bunker haven’t driven it through the Fairway he gets the thing holds the head

cover off at Three Wood whacks it in the green side bunker this is azinger from the from the duck Island sevi decides to

have a go around the bunker with a wood tops it in the water everything erupts and downs it for a five seven he makes six Pizza this is happening yes as we’re

standing on the on the on the 17th tee looking up we have 17 calc and I we’re on the 18th

T over and over I think is it’s my honor I stand up I hit the drive of my dream that had this you know for me a high

draw bounces left even runs around the thing there’s a greens fly goes up to say that’s all set and whatever it is

there’s a big chair and whatever it is and you know breathing away you know you’re you’re passing away your heart’s

going 100 miles an hour and stuff like that and calc stand up Shuffle Shuffle and just as he’s about to hit

this guy runs out with a red flag to stop playing because what’s happened in front of us

who is is it feldo and Payne Stewart or some pain steer something to do with it

and he’s in the hazard we can’t see him he’s headed the hazard just a bit of a

hack it uh gone and he’s he’s had two or three go I don’t know this but this is what’s happened he’s had two or three

goals at it but he’s in the hazard around the corner we can’t see and so the guys come out to stop play and in

this in my official video when you see this happening and see this well I think it is paying hacking about in the in the

hazard you see this golf ball flying over his head it’s mine it’s my drive so

I mean you’ve got to understand that in the Ryder Cup it’s so intense and it’s so and when you’re really nervous uh

something you know two things happen the world either goes really slowly or

really quickly and for me it’s going really slowly and whatever things are happening really so it’s going all

around you but it’s all happening a bit slowly so with this guy coming out with this red flag and stuff and now it was

only for about 15 seconds or so but I mean 15 seconds in that time at that stage is like an R you know it’s just

it’s just go anyway so guy guy comes up with the the green flag suddenly changes

and counts quite quick so he’s like over to the T and the shuffle Championship doesn’t he hit the biggest Sky you have

ever seen absolutely 18 handicaps straight off the

top of the thing the thing goes straight up and I’m over to the side because uh one

of the nice little things is that there’s lots of observers at the Ryder Cup and I’m not too sure I mean I think

it is the same at the moment certainly was that uh Glenn Eagles the last sort of Ryder Cup that I was physically at

um a lot of the players are invited to come and be you know observers and so you know

and Brian Barnes who goddesses so I think died last year as well he um he

was my minder you know my Observer sort of now the little identifier they’re not allowed to do anything but they’d like

to be with you and chat you and stuff I think so after I’ve hit my tee shot and all this

other flaps happening with kelp Bungie’s like dragged me off to the edge of the team he’s like massaging my shoulders

and First Premiere you know deep breath boy deep breath you know you know I’m trying to go like this here

and so anyway calc is this roof straight and it’s gone straight up and it’s hanging in the air and barnsley’s like

dragging me over over to the side whenever there’s more watching this bowl coming down and coming down and he can’t

wait anyway Splash doesn’t even come close to getting over the hazard I mean it’s in the middle of the water this

sort of thing and you’re looking just cries he’s like pushing me over the bridge you

know there’s a bridge 100 yards 50 yards off the end of the 18th of above he’s pushing me over the bridge you know get

over there bring around breathe breathe breathe you know oh pressure you know and uh and there we go so I’m I’m down

there and always remembered I’ve got one eight one I’ve got uh 149 and 32 18th green the belfix huge pins up left-hand

side middle tier whatever it is so I’ve got 181 and um and you know you gotta let the referees get on with it so the

referees are over with Calculus laughing about flower anyway it doesn’t get a drop in the bloody Dark Island

and all I can think of is what I’ve just seen with Asing of 30 minutes ago

I can’t even headed on the green card he can still make five oh God I’m you know and suddenly all contingency plans

you’ve got all these sort of things going on in your mind you’ve got one eight one okay one four nine so okay I’ve got enough Loft to get over the

water um but there’s there’s you know grandstands and Drop Zones and stuff so

what what can I not sharing oh I can’t shank at five wood oh right so maybe it might be if I could I I’ll just get it

over that because it’d be really embarrassing if you were to sort of putter to the end of the hazard and Chip it on and I’m trying to think how do I

how do I not make six and losers right you know I can still lose this match head cover comes off Comcast the head

cover off the three one oh no no no he can knock it on the green he can actually make four oh god oh you know

what’s going on what’s going on anyway stands up headset Sean looks like it’s in the middle of the Green from my angle

Splash it doesn’t I mean 40 yards again short middle of the hazard nowhere close

his thumbs are now digging into my neck you know he’s like he’s massaging me so

much and talking to me anyway cow comes you know head you know Club back in the

bag comes right in the house and I’m thinking there’s no way you cross the hazard done the thing you can get a drop

down there and Chip it on the green because you can still make you know five at this stage and all this other stuff and I could still lose this oh and um he

comes walking he’s walking towards me and I’m not hitting and Barnes he’s like you know you know holding me back and he

comes walking over walking over to me and I’m standing a few yards back from a bowl that’s sitting on the ferry there

and he bends down he picks my ball up what’s up

and I’ve still got no idea to this day or I’m looking at this guy he’s he’s

literally in tears looking at me handing my ball in the hand and I’m looking I’m going and that’s a two sharp penalty

and and he’s looking at me going what do you mean and I said I said it’s a t-shirt you pick my boy

do you not know I’m conceding the match

no no bungees Bungie’s like shoving my hat and my hand and his hand because when I don’t know well sorry sorry

but Tony is shoving my hand in his hand because what I didn’t know it’s a bit

it’s a bit like you know going to an auction and buying something auction you know the match isn’t over to you shake hands so you have to actually shake

hands before the guy changes his mind so Tony’s like ripping my hand over to him to take my hands there you go oh Christ

I want never been more delighted than the fact I’ve never had

um and then Tony has I mean it’s great it’s Madness you’re gonna attend this madness night going on you know the

galleries going nuts people are swarming you there’s 50 entourage on every Fairway and everyone’s clapping in the

back and marks and tears I mean literally in bits over there and I’m feeling sorry for him so we’re walking

up the Fairway arm and arm sort of for a bit and then Tony grabs me and says I want you to go up to the 18th green I

want you to walk over the bridge and go up into the middle of the 18th green and you know acknowledge the the crowd

because I need some noise you know I need to know you know for the ninth and uh the 18th going to Belfry the ninth

grains beside the tent tees over there the first tease over there because remember I’m match four you know there’s two hours of tee off times you know the

first matches are only you know going up the third Fairway or something the tent green you left everything’s

behind you so Tony gets me to go up onto the 18th green so that the gallery went nuts and so that could be heard around

the golf course so that the gallery walking around with the other matches knew that somebody you know from Europe

had won a game and got a point in the board and all that sort of stuff so yeah that’s just a great great team manager

and stuff but God was the thing I never and the relief when it’s over is phenomenal you can’t believe it and it’s

I mean it still gives you Goosebumps today I’m sitting here you know you you still remind you’re reminding yourself

of how it felt like and and I suppose at the time you know is the Ryder Cup enjoyable when when you’re doing it no

is it enjoyable when it’s over yes it’s enjoyable when you remember this absolutely fantastic times uh when you

quit but it’s just such high high octane isn’t it it’s it’s like such a high octane environment that’s so different a

stroke play and obviously we started this podcast talking a little bit about the fact that you’re playing loads of match play golf and then moving on to

stroke play and professional game but the Ryder Cup just has that intensity and you know pairing it with courses

like The Belfry where it’s just sort of super kind of geared up towards match play golf it’s um and and kind of

hearing you tell those stories it’s amazing I’m not sure I could hit the opening t-shirt today I have to say you

know the Ryder Cup is girl it’s all big you know would you would I have been able to stand on the First Tee in France

underneath the um you know the after the Thunderclap after

the Scandinavian Thunderclap the Viking Thunderclap and it’s crazy

then then tried to hit my t-shirt after all of that with all the stuff going on with the way the grandstand was but I’m

not too sure one of the things I wanted to ask you about was um the 94 open so

obviously you had a um a career best finish sort of 10 years ago at St Andrews but am I right in

thinking that you played in the final pairing at Turnberry um yeah yeah oh bloody hell yeah God

you’re taking me back yeah so the the um 84 open was a was a great one uh said

Andrew and upstairs there was a a 36 hole cut and a 54 hole cut and I

remember doing voltage at a good round on this on the Saturday uh to make it into the last and then I plan with

Trevino was in Andrews uh the year that’s everyone hold that great put on the 18th green and that was you know

phenomenal and so you know again you’ve already alluded the fact it took me a few more years to win in Europe so now

I’m sort of off and running and I play well win some tournaments I mean worldwide as well went down in Australia

again uh as well until from 89 to 93 I’m

playing some really good golf making all the teams playing World Cups Karen cups and stuff so uh 94 come out I’m not

having a good season uh not played well only a few good finishes and whatever it is we go to the open at Turnberry not

expecting anything I’m not playing great and you know usual sort of story something clicks you know somebody tells

you something on the the practice ground and the clicks and it works and it feels good and you had a few good shots and I

shoot like 70 in the first round or something which and the scoring was decent as well so certainly wasn’t that

great score but at least you weren’t out of it but then I shoot like 66 on on on the Friday and

um yeah good run of golf lots of good play but on Saturday I shoot 65 I think

and and I’m now on the boat you know I’m now creeping up the board and I mean I

think I’m in the second last group I’m with pricey in the second last group I’m trying to think I’m I’m going to say it’s maybe something like Tom Watson and

fuzzy Zeller and maybe the last group behind but I’m in the second last group Lots going on you can imagine that

Ireland has gone on a ferry overnight from from from Dublin or Belfast to come

over to watch you know the golf and all that sort of stuff so all right we go to play and I’m very nervous in my first

sort of you know on the board and in a lead group and it’s Lots going on as well and I play okay anyway I’m leading

with nine to play can you believe it I’m um you know I but I’m playing with pricey who’s who’s playing like a dog I

mean literally this I mean he’s the world players one in the states he’s won World Cup well the the Bridgestone which

ended up becoming a world golf Township you know he’s a feature and he he must have won a major or two by this stage as

well and he won a uspga maybe late 80s early 90s at this stage as well and so

on playing with pricey and stuff like that but he’s playing like a dog I mean he said that terrible he’s nearly headed

on the beach at the theater with the second shot 40 yards left for the green with the five and he said terrible

t-shirt of nine and it’s all really Scrappy uh I.E chip in for an eagle at the sixth I think it was the power five

to uh go on the board or top of the board and I’m leading after nine very swiftly not leading after the 10th

after have to say uh but but then I end up I end up chipping in

for I end up making a birdie at the 11s and chip in the 12th for a for a birdie

to um be back on top of the leaderboard I think and pricey still no I mean price

is dogging it away beside me and stuff like that um anyway so lovely and look for me yeah

I I I end up finishing six four six which again you’ll need another day to

go through this story because it’s an epic but price he’s not had a golf shop worth a damn for 14 holds and he’s

headed over the back of the 14th hit this big flyer over the back of the 14th pins

on this back little ledge he hits this bump and run that’s never going to make it up the slope and at last grasp it

literally gets to the top of the sort of pukes over the top and runs down to

about eight feet and he holds it for a four but he still needs I mean it’s leading by about five shots at this stage he’s

like three groups in front of us nearly in the clubhouse where the five he you know he’s he’s he’s he’s he’s gone nuts

and he’s leading at this stage you know but the way in front of us um

so why not pricey hits his first decent job of the day into the middle of the 15 screen so why we both make three we both

hit good drives down 16. pinned front left he half Shanks this little pitch up I

mean it’s literally back right nearly another yard and it goes over the bridge that you walk down to the 17th here I

mean it’s nearly in the water back right and this pin front left you know it’s it’s only five on four from the left

tucked in the corner um I hit this I hit this Gap where it’s sort of all over absolutely right down

the banner spin it around the whole I think and doesn’t it suck back in man one minute is three feet away next

minute that step back comes gets to the edge of the green runs it anyway runs back down into the water I end up making

six pricey holds this thing across the Green from 60 feet for a three it’s a tram liner

isn’t it a huge part I remember my dad had money on him to win I remember him dancing around the living room

um Vivid Vivid childhood memory 17 we both had decent drives pins front right

over the corner of the bunker there’s a bunker eating in I had a decent shot just sort of front left

pricing hits is absolutely low raking like again you know I’ve got to say

sorry this is niggling on the 18 handicappers it says absolutely ranked sort of low hook with aura raking thing

that runs up and ends up being 90 feet back left couldn’t be further away you

know from the whole uh on the green anyway doesn’t he hold that as well for a three

he then he then stands at ponovic’s no bogey in the last we we here there’s a

moon and drone in the scoreboard they’re not electronic you know so they open the guys putting the numbers up and the

things that the numbers come down numbers go up Suddenly there’s a Groome that that he’s buggy the last

price he’s got a One-Shot lead it’s a decent two iron off the last hit and missing when she opened by a shot you’re

looking at thinking why is that how’d that just happened wow I’m sure I’m sure

I mean it’s not how as a as a spectator goal yeah he hasn’t hit it he hasn’t hit

a decent job until the 15th he’s then gone he’s then gone three three four he’s gone three sorry three

three three four to one by one as I’m just going six four six to finish ninth

or something a major championship winning round isn’t

it at least at least I’ve got my score of my signature and a scorecard at least and famous for something that had the

market score wow that is awesome but but actually it’s quite nice because

um turnberry’s one of the few clubs that has all the memorabilia from various opens and stuff so they are quite Keen

in having scorecards and pictures and stuff like that so anytime it’s not very often unfortunately I’ll go down to

Turnberry um I’ve always got this thing where there’s a plaque with the four or a frame with the four score cards in and

uh the the whole leaderboard beside it where I can show people that I used to be decent look at that look there’s my

name and there’s my name of there but again you know here’s here’s here’s the thing you’re talking about prize money

so 1984 I finished like again ninth in the open and I won 11

000 could really yeah I mean it’s a pittance isn’t it compared it’s a it’s an absolute

pittance compared to today I I saw a thing the other day for just playing in a world golf championship no you get 55

000 that’s right just for playing no cut or anything either wow well Ryan it’s um it’s been

incredible to hear all these stories um we’ve been going for over two hours now and we’re very respectful of of your

time um I feel like we’ve only just scratched the surface there we need to talk more about about architecture and you’re working broadcasting but we’ll

probably have to save that for a for another podcast um I did I did tell you that there isn’t

enough days in the week well the the good thing about that Ronin is you’ve now got to agree you’re going to come back on the podcast

oh so so same time tomorrow guys yeah same time today yeah definitely down

because I would love to get you back on because it would be great I think um have you ever done a party have you

ever done a part three four five and six before we have had guests back on we do have a few we have a few people that

let’s come back on so people like Chris Trott and stuff are some regular regular guests to the Pod so

um but no it would be fantastic to get you back on and talk about um architecture and stuff and some of

the golf courses and stuff you do with golf world as well because um you saw our recent film from broader

didn’t you uh yeah yeah yeah it was great I am uh is I’m very fond memories

abroad I I have a good time have a good time for another story yeah absolutely why not let’s set the go out with a bang

on broader uh yeah I love linked off you know grew up on these golf still still love it today love being by the seaside

so um I’m forever taking myself off to try and play all sorts of obscure links

courses around the British Isles and get a bit of a reputation for sort of collecting these sort of thing so

I do an article in a golf Magazine’s asking you know four questions or six questions the pros and there’s a usual

sort of rubbish of you know what do you want to do before your day and all this sort of stuff and you know everyone wants a whole a cut to win an open and

you know plan to write a couple of stuff but I wanted to do things like walk the beat in the Gale and see the Northern

Lights and all this sort of stuff and a week or so after this Golf Magazine

comes down to get a letter through the European tour and it’s from Brewer Golf Club saying that we’re we’re sitting here at having our committee meeting

it’s just been raised that you want to see the Northern Lights play every Lynx course in the British house and walk the

beach in the Gale uh we know you’ve not been here uh it’s blown the Gill we can see the Northern Lights out there and

we’d love to invite you up to play so the very next day I ring them up to say hello my name’s Ronan rafley yes yes if

your name’s Ronald Rafferty my name’s Hillary Clinton you know and and uh and and look long story I end up

going up to play the very next week go up with a good mate of mine and they shut the golf course down for us they

literally that nobody can play the green keepers are right the place is immaculate has been mowed and down and

manicured and whatever it is and they’re waiting for us to play and we arrive and the whole Entourage there that the

captain with all the medallions the local councils there and and yeah 150 members have turned up to watches play

and oh we go and nobody you know nobody will come near us you know they’re all

standing very respectively 50 yards behind and occasionally you’d be standing looking for a line or you know

one and then somebody will come up and go oh Mr Rafferty it’s you know if you hit it just inside the bunk you’d be all right and I can’t want to chat to people

and talk and stuff and everyone’s you know treating me like Lord Rafferty you know

you know and um we play those 18 holes and when we come

in you know I’ve got a bit of a schedule and we’re going this and said oh we’ve got a dinner for you in the clubhouse

we’ve got you know the committee and the council and every community and I’m sorry oh God you know just thought my

meme were gonna have a you know glass of wine and a stake in the corner and no no we got all this so anyway it ends up

being like a a party political dinner you know everyone’s up making speeches and saying how wonderful it is that

we’re coming up and isn’t a great that you know Brewer and Sutherland can attract people like Ronan Rapha

you know yeah heard it all before blah blah blah and um my mates know Jimmy said look

yeah I’ve just been told we can’t pay for him we’re staying the night there’s nothing we can pay for there’s no green fees there’s no food there’s no Barber

you know nothing we and the room’s been comped and everything and so he said look I want to give something back to

the club so mommy said to me you know what I’m so you know I’ve worked it out it’s going to be like 250 quid or

something so what happens if I donate to that to the Gold Club and I say oh that’s fantastic well if you do that I’ll match you and we’ll donate like 500

quid to the golf club for the genius Depot so it’s my turn to get up and speak so I get up and I finished up and

said look as a gesture I know it’s all been complimentary but we’d like to do this at the golf government we’d like to give

500 quid to the golf club for the juniors to play the council head of the council sitting

right beside me he jumps up and going well whatever you do will match and so suddenly this is like 1970 1996 or

something so they’ve now got a thousand quids apparently so the dinner’s over and everyone’s gone and the captain the golf

club nudges up beside me says we’re going to say we’ve got a bit of a problem he said um you know you you know

between you and the council you know we’ve got a thousand pounds said the last Junior competition that we had the

the winner got a golf ball and runner up got a bag of Teas so so now we we could hope we could hold

this money and we don’t know what you know we don’t know what to do we don’t know what to do that literally you know

the entire Club competitions don’t even play for you know a thousand Clinton whatever anyways

I end up making a I got a mini Claret jug made and a quick people who know

what it creates a little uh sipping cup you know very famous thing in Scotland and we ended up having and still today

they pray for the Ronan Rafferty trophy of Brewer and all the age groups you know under nines under 11s 13s 15s up to

18s and for for boys and girls and at the time not sure if exactly is still

today was the biggest Junior kids tournament in Scotland

is that right that’s great though that’s fantastic isn’t it and it’s such a magical place Brewer it really is I love

it love it a bit and you know I’ve only ever seen the Northern Lights I also ended up going to a place further on the

road Wick Golf Club use it fantastic that’s all up there for a few things and

um very fond of Wick as well and um that’s that’s where I sold the northern lights and walk the walk the beach in

the Gaelic grower of the Southern northern lights up at wake so I’ve done a lot of the things that I wanted to do but uh uh very very very

fond of rora well we’re looking forward to getting you back onto the podcast Ronan to talk about it

um and I mean it’s just been amazing listening to you talk through your career there for for you know kind of two hours really could have gone forever

but but those highlights and the stuff you’ve only got 1989. I’ve got another

well we’ll have to do it yeah we’ll have to do a series it’ll have to yeah we’ll have to do a series on it the adventures of Rafferty this

thank you foreign