hello and welcome back to another
episode of the cookie jar golf podcast I
am Tom Mills and today I’m joined by my
friend Sam Williams always Thomas it is
an absolute pleasure to be with you
thank you it’s a pleasure to have you
with me it’s um I’m tired really tired
we haven’t spent enough time together
the last few days no this is probably of
the of the possible last 72 hours that
we were able to be within splitting
distance of each other I think probably
for 71 and a half we’ve been together
which has been emotional we’ve been
tired we probably argued over the size
of a steak yesterday that’s where the
space it got to it was uh it was very
very good though for those
people that don’t know the reason we’re
very tired
is in the last few days we’ve just had
our cookie jar Christmas mixer good
wasn’t it yeah so
um as a little sort of thank you to
everyone who you know supported and been
to some of the events with us this year
uh just laying on a little Christmas
party it is Silly Season
um and the party didn’t disappoint so I
thought it was really really neat to tie
up with Sounder you know really rushing
a bunch of guys sound a goals
um you know James John Dan all of those
kind of guys that that are involved in
that brand and stuff they do and it was
just really cool to sort of lay on
little joint Christmas party so
um
but for for everyone’s benefit we had um
we had it at Urban golf now I’m not mad
on simulators I don’t know how much golf
you’ve done of sort of sim golf
a little bit of sim golf I wouldn’t say
I’m an expert in simgolf but I’ve done a
little bit
well it was just you know it’s a
fantastic little spot in Holborn uh in
London
yeah nice food nice drinks and and
um the guys very kindly sort of make the
venue available for us so it was
brilliant to get people down there and
just I mean very quickly things
descended into you know who can hit the
one eye and the best into the screen
yeah yeah it was and there was a lot of
flexing wasn’t there I think yeah there
was a lot of um
there was a lot of ankle bruising going
on it was um
it was a stranger like we’ve touched
we’ve we’ve sort of crossed paths with
the Sounder guys every now and again
there’s a huge amount of crossover
between sander and urban golf
um with you know who who owns what down
there and
James day who runs Urban golf
um you know we met him down there we had
a beer we hit a few balls in the Sim
before anyone got there with an
intention actually of recording a
podcast which we still need to do with
it but actually we just ended up going
into the bunker at Urban golf which is
absolute golf Pawn it’s unbelievable
isn’t it his little workshop back there
is absolutely incredible it’s an
absolute dungeon of blades FootJoy
Classics
um you know replica clubs and and
original clubs from some of the greats
and you look at things like you know
you’ve got things like servies you know
in Sandy Lyle’s clubs there the blades
you’ve got the original sort of Sounder
blades
um you know the brand that Savvy kind of
wrapped but yeah
and we say every time we have these
events though don’t we it’s like aren’t
they bloody amazing because isn’t it
good when you bring people together who
are just so ridiculously passionate
about Golf and they’re just buzzing
buzzing and it was really I thought
different with this event seeing
familiarity across people who’d been to
different events who’d gone and played
or played games and it was almost like
rather than us being like the sort of
host there it was just like you know it
wouldn’t have made any difference yeah
yeah but before we dive into the
Christmas party itself I think we
probably need to talk about the the
whole weekend that we’ve had I mean
starting with the travel I think getting
to London from Birmingham is ordinarily
quite a straightforward task but we
managed to complicate it in every single
way that could be complicated
um we decided to drive halfway there
jump on a train and then train the rest
of the way there um
in retrospect probably not the best idea
we had overnight bags we had golf bags
we had boxes of merch to give away
we had podcasting gear
and
um foolishly thought I would take down
some Bloody Mary mixture because this is
this is almost like a micro core star is
part of urban Golf and Rye I think which
are two total different ends of the
spectrum
um and the idea is this is a little
course Diaries almost around that
context being it was a tour and I had
this brilliant idea that you know
knock together some Bloody Marys on the
train
Thursday to Rye and that would kind of
kill something cure some Hangouts it’s
absolutely day two
um but obviously
hindsight I would have bought that in
London rather than carrying around
considering London does they they do
have Tesco’s yeah yeah like rather than
counting like six liters of tomato juice
two liters of vodka lemons uh stirrers
shakers pepper every every ingredient
that actually weighed us down quite a
bit so that was that was pretty Grim I
thought the actual whole process of
getting down there
um and other people who may have been to
Rye will also know that jacking Ty is a
staple diet there and uh oh yeah the
frustration when I arrived at the train
station I need to realize that I’d
completely forgotten my jacket and tie
was slightly disappointing so well it
just means you’re in for you know at
least 300 pounds because you’ve got to
go
be easy you’ll watch us through the
window eat lunch so chronic though
because I’d
I’d also taken the time of ironing
everything putting the ties on I’d put
my chinos and everything inside the
jacket as well so everything was hung
over quite nicely it was all ordered so
that you know I could just easily kind
of move through the Wardrobe uh not to
think about it which basically meant 99
of My Apparel was tied up in that coat
hanger that was left at home so I was
pretty much grounded I think you managed
to turn it into my fault as well which
is really quite interesting I think you
really focus that energy on you just sat
in the car basically just playing on
your phone waiting for me to carry all
this stuff out my house I wasn’t very
happy actually for the majority of that
train yeah you were sad you were a Sad
Dog sad dog you’re a really sad dog
little um I think just before we go any
further this product it’s right to just
a bit of a shout out to The Unofficial
sponsors of of uh of the Pod this week
um which you know obviously massive
thanks to Sounder Golf and urban you
know I think that that’s okay
um The Unofficial sponsor though Charles
Tyler yeah they came in they they really
came to my rescue there was some nice
shirts
good bit of Blazer managed to secure a
corporate discount not quite sure how
um
yeah got us back on the road again yeah
we were we were flying after that and uh
we managed to cheer you up eventually
with the promise of seeing sir Bruce
I think we had a little uh a little bit
of Christmas lunch and you know what
that was really nice wasn’t it to sit
there and we’ll probably do a bit of a
year in recap pod I think right I think
we’ll yeah we will well we need an
appraisal as well well yeah well that’s
what we did last year wasn’t it was kind
of like the appraisal so I think we
should do that
um but it was nice just kind of having a
round up and sort of thinking you know
actually where was cookie jar a year ago
and where is it now and it’s absolutely
incredible when you look at where that’s
at and that I think yeah we’ve we’ve
obviously put some work in and you know
had a lot of fun on the way but I think
that’s you know the biggest thanks go to
listeners viewers people that interact
with us people who support us and talk
about stuff around the clubhouses like
that’s that’s the that’s the reason that
people listen to this stuff and enjoy it
and it grows I mean there was a there
was an element of backslapping involved
we were also thinking about and talking
about the future and what we’d like to
do and where we’d like to get the place
but to Echo your sentiments
it is astonishing to think that we
started in this room you know talking
about only connect
on the TV this is how we started and
we’ve had to since go back and rip so
much out of it because it just we were
just really salty
um and actually you know we’ve grown and
changed and the the list of numbers have
have gone up consistently and you know
we’re so
honored really that that you guys would
actually spend any time at all listening
to
you know thousands of minutes listened
and you start creating that it’s quite a
quite a significant time commitment
um just talking a little bit then about
Urban golf so I think you know the vibe
of the event was fantastic everyone’s
buzzing you know there’s nearest the
pins going off all the time
um you know the sound of you know people
thumping the the Sim with with golf
balls which is going on relentlessly and
people just never came up for air but I
wouldn’t mind just talking about some of
those clubs we had a little bash with
out of James’s I would love to go back
and take a closer look at it but
how hard are some of those like one and
two irons to hit yeah so so James has
got this collection of clubs that are
genuinely you know what you’d put down
in a poor ball Striker’s worst nightmare
they were they were blades that were
that were smaller than a pinky finger
you know one irons that had sort of less
help than a pinky finger and we’re
taking it to the 70s like come on then
bear in mind when we got there we had a
beer we had a chat with him and I just
started shanking eight times down there
he’s like right here’s what happened
from 1972 let’s see what he can do with
it it was um
there’s some incredible bits of Kit man
the old persimmon Woods he’s got and he
could shave with those things there and
people say butter knives I actually
would back myself to shave my face with
all those one irons yeah they were
brilliant and some of them made them out
into the Sims for for for use in the
party which is which is quite nice
um but I was really impressed with like
you know James incredible and you talk
to him about equipment
stimulators
bits you know he has a reputation of one
of the great sort of Club Fitters up and
down the land and he’s an absolute golf
junkie I mean he’s a nerd and we know a
lot of nerds but he’s a nerd he really
really likes it doesn’t he and and that
then cuts through them with all the
story with Urban and Sandra and stuff
but yeah it was
um I thought it was quite interesting
talking Timber equipment and learning a
lot and he was you know what he was
talking about with things like lie
angles and going flatter and flatter and
you know actually some of the some of
the stuff that’s coming with recent
modern equipment and things that’s done
and I would I would 100 like to come
back and do a little bit of um yeah we
need to get back down there I mean we
could always do it by Zoom which is
typically How We Do guest podcasts but I
do think we need to get back down to the
bunker and you know there’s got to be
some video content down there as well
because it is absolutely absurd The
Collection he’s got down there I think
it would be right then to talk a little
bit about Rye
um
obviously we went in April I think it
was wasn’t it when we got down to right
to do the film
yeah I think probably April April yeah
it seems ages ago it does feel like a
long time ago because obviously there’s
so many places we’ve been since then but
how does it feel going back to Rye
I think the second time around
I appreciated it more that we didn’t
have cameras in our hand which which
helped
um I think
I think it was better than it was in
April I think the condition was better
not that it wasn’t good in April but it
was just smoking hot like it was
absolutely
just in insane condition for like it
puts a spotlight on it when you when you
stood there two weeks before Christmas
you just Chuck a couple of balls down on
the practice putting green before we go
out
literally D green three putts I mean
it’s unreal how quick they are like I’ve
always heard this ride great
wintergreens ride fabulous Greens in the
winter all of that goes on and on they
were absolutely breathtakingly quick and
true
um yeah I mean the course is in
unbelievable condition but I think going
back it does make you really appreciate
some of the
um some of the subtle stuff and I always
think you learn more about a course when
you play it either at a different time
of year or you go back or you play the
third or fourth time because you hit the
ball in different spots you learn
different things
see different aspects to it and I think
sometimes the second or third visit to a
course can be like okay yeah I’ve not
really learned anything new here rise
like this like massive Rich tapestry
that just keeps giving and giving
there’s loads more stuff to it
um yeah I think it was fair to say that
um things got a little bit a little bit
dicey on the evening of urban golf um
but then
get in the train in the morning
that was difficult getting to Rye was
that was ambitious it was too tricky
first thing in the morning after a big
night but when you think if you’re in
the center of London getting the train
down to Rye a few little stops very
leisurely you’re there in an hour we’re
in a different world like it’s amazing
like maybe it wasn’t quite like you know
walking in Bernard Darwin’s footsteps
but you do get the feeling of what that
might have been like 100 120 years ago
with people using the train how great
that would have been if you were part of
the London Elite and hopping on a train
traveling down to Rye to play some nice
golf on some lovely Turf you know that
would have just been unbelievable
experience and it it’s a long way it’s
it’s more than two hours by car to get
to the South Coast from London you’re
there in pretty much an hour you get off
the train short taxi ride
um yeah you just it’s worlds away from
London isn’t it yeah and I think it was
quite a feat actually to get a dozen
people at seven seven forty seven forty
on a train oh yeah in in uh Malibu no
King’s cross well yeah so I mean we’re
jumping around a little bit here we’ll
come back to to Rye but I think the the
people the best story of actually how he
got there
um King’s cross and pancreas for those
that don’t know it is a sprawling mass
of two train stations multiple
underground terminals it’s enormous
we’re walking around they’re a little
bit jaded about ten past seven we’ve got
a train in 25 minutes quite
straightforward go and get some coffees
and get to the platform loads of time
because obviously you can’t buy that
before it’ll melt
um
and then we’re just running for the
platform running and running and one of
the other guys
um Sam Cooper funnily enough um by the
way huge success on top 100 golf podcast
um that we did in the week he was along
there with us he’s running alongside on
the platform gets to the bottom of the
stairs and just goes no we’re not gonna
make it we’re done we’re done at this
point I’ve gone to the wrong platform so
I’m now a platform four I should be at
platform 13. so I think I’ll run back
down the escalator I call
said Cooper and say Cooper where are you
I’m like the train is in 30 seconds
don’t worry Mills it’s over we’re not
gonna make it don’t worry let’s call it
a day and you’ve run up yes
down King’s cross I suddenly crossed to
you guys Cooper’s still in full defeat
bolted up the stairs
of the platform to see the the guy with
the whistle like closing the doors and
we’re all shouting there with our golf
bags and our overnight bags it’s quite a
sight isn’t it
four men running with MacKenzie golf
bags over their shoulders you know in
order regalia running down the platform
you went plus fours it’s not a good look
isn’t it
um but yeah I want to talk a little bit
about Rye anyway so obviously yeah
getting there at a great time and I
think just on the course I I do I just
can’t stress how impressive the course
was yeah the condition’s amazing you
know it was incredible
but I was just playing it again and the
routing and the way way it works with
that Ridge that goes through it and we
talked a little bit about that in the
film I think didn’t we but
it’s a very very clever Golf Course the
way it’s put together the ridge is uh
such a feature because you play one two
three they’re in a line they’re just
below the Ridge and you pretty much get
to the end of the property and then you
climb onto the ridge turn back and
you’re playing four
literally on the Ridge and it’s it’s
tiny like it’s the it is genuinely one
of the hardest golf holes in the world
yeah that’s it’s that’s that’s Mania
isn’t it before the threes are you know
it’s probably the best collection of
part three as you can you’ll find there
and they’re all different lengths and
they all ask different things and
they’ve all got brilliant greens and
they’ve got this little detailing
sleepers which you know they’re called
sort of Rye brows that says
I think I think it’s it’s becoming
official
um but the hole that I think is sneaky
sneaky good
is the ninth it’s the ultimate half par
golf hole isn’t it it’s firm you play at
the clubhouse it’s very reachable for
for you know the the sort of the medium
to longer hitter and because it’s so
firm you’ve got all this excitement of
watching the ball run up to the ground
oh it’s just uh so it’s if you are going
to run it in
you know it is Rumble the ball can go
pretty much anywhere
um
but it’s a great golf I was playing into
the wind there’s June’s up on the right
so if you flare it a bit you’re a bit
knackered on the left there’s some some
bunkers and yeah it’s just it’s a
quality golf hole but it the place is
littered with quality golf balls yeah it
is tough to pull out
in one of the standout holder at Rye
because they are
just all great we did manage to put it
within 40 yards in our tee shot and Hull
is seven footer for both yeah I mean to
be fair yeah I mean it was that was an
appalling pop from about 12 feet he left
me at a hideous amount there before
before the term in the match but they
were yeah they’re great I I think cannot
speak highly enough of the course the
other little sort of nugget around Rye
that I’d like to talk about would be the
um only because it’s timely with the
County Down film and I think the County
Down film might be you know one of my
favorites that that you know we’ve done
as a as a collective the Darwin sort of
assay that goes into County down and the
way he talks about the club and
describes it and then going down to Rye
where he obviously lived many of his
like final years his armchair that was
owned by his grandfather Charles Darwin
still sits in the bay that chair you
know in a you know in most in most parts
of the world would now be in a museum
yeah for sure like velvet called Roblox
yeah and in right it’s like it’s a part
of the club you sit there after lunch in
that chair with all these other lovely
armchairs around it
um and I just thought that was really
neat and it was like quite a nice little
sort of you know it just goes full
circle doesn’t it when you do when you
research clubs and you look at the
influence of people like Darwin and what
he wrote about them and then you know
you sat there in his chair I just
thought
um yeah absolutely blown away but what
you do find with all these things is the
golf world
is very small and you know like these
things all do link up in many different
ways and the connection with Darwin
pretty much everywhere I mean anywhere
of any significant Darwin’s had a good
word to say about it with what it seems
like it’s like the old version of Tom
Watson in that regard yeah yeah but like
Rye’s done a lot of good a lot of good
work to the club as well they’ve just
built their
the new locker room the focusing on the
important things Tom yeah Lou Locker
Room Shower pressure pressure you know
there is a massive correlation with good
golf clubs and the quality of showers
it’s so important like those showers
were unbelievable it was nice and cold
out so you had a nice warm shower when
you got in I thought I was going to go
sort of you know like Daniel Craig
Casino Royale where he sort of sits down
in the shower and just takes us all the
showers are good I was really tempted to
go that far with it but yeah that was
that was beautiful
um it’s done a great job of that they’ve
really done uh done the good job of that
because they were the last time we were
there they were sort of in the throngs
of building it
um but now it’s complete it’s looking
looking great and it doesn’t looks
it doesn’t look out of place when you’re
doing something new to a golf club
that’s that old and that traditional
it’s hard to mess it up yeah oh sorry
it’s easy yeah it’s easy to mess it up
and uh it’s hard to make sure that
you’ve nailed it and they don’t they’ve
done a good job of it so yeah it’s yeah
awesome and the way you can walk from
like the practice putting green the bag
drop is like undercover and then you
walk through the change room then you
walk like all in a straight line then
you’re in the clubhouse ready to Lunge
it’s just flows very very well so um
another little little piece from from a
few days you and me have both joined uh
a new golf club haven’t we hmm
do you want to tell us about I can’t
remember what it’s called
very funny so when we got down to right
there’s a few guys wearing these
beautiful ties with little elephants on
so that’s very nice this one goes oh is
that a craft Tire I said what’s a craft
type never heard of it can’t remember a
flipping thing and I’m sure there’s
other expletives that begin with an F
that might be used in other
um but on the on the on the literature
the the club which is actually it’s a
golf Society it’s a club
um
and he said oh yeah well you know how
does that work well you you pay 20
pounds and that gives you life
membership and you get a tie you can get
a tie you can get belching get
merchandise so that’s quite cool and you
know what’s the idea behind it you know
and it’s like it’s essentially there to
support the charity so it’s supporting
you know there’s the Lifeboat charity
you’ve got the soldiers Sailors Airmen
and families Association that’s like a
really cool you know sort of military
military charity save the children and
um anyway looking on this thing it looks
like it was put together in 1991 first
of April it’s like okay I’ve never heard
of this turns out they’ve got 70 000
members
and the first rule of Craft club is find
some more members of Craft club yeah
yeah so you bring in four or more
members
um I thought absolutely brilliant they
have like you know they’ve got events
that happen occasionally so like they’ll
have a few events I think it’s
predominantly around the south coast of
England
um
basically just giving money to charity
and getting a tie yeah but we’re all in
on that and to be fair I thought it was
a really cool little logo a little
elephant thing
um they put a little poem in here
on the back of it would you like me to
read it to you the horse I would you may
think us Daft to have founded the craft
but it gives us something to do it came
as a whim to both Tom and to Jim it sort
of flew out of the blue
we both can’t remember was it may or
September it certainly was not at an inn
it was the 19th that rye with Andy close
by and both of us full up with gin
the club when it started was also
half-hearted it looked to be dead as a
duck now 35 000 focon from New York to
Hong Kong we’ve certainly had all the
luck
thanks to all you kind folk who soon saw
the joke and parted with tennis Galore
more than 25 000 pounds have gone on
their rounds to the Lifeboat Double S a
f a and more
we’ve got vicans and Earls we’ve got old
men and girls judges Bishops and lots of
nice members scars and ties are still
selling our coffers are swelling and
nobody really remembers I thought it’s
very cool yeah it’s brilliant isn’t that
I can’t remember
um so yeah that was that was a nice
little but it wasn’t the only thing that
surprised you when you got into the uh
the Rye Clubhouse was it you all about
the Christmas card well I’m about the
Christmas card that was nice yeah send a
little Christmas card down didn’t we and
that was uh that was down the clubhouse
that was all very nice she was it was on
display which was very nice you know
send this you you took a lot of time
sending Christmas cards and um you know
personally if I get a Christmas card I
usually go that’s great put it somewhere
nicely sat out on me it’s nicely put on
display
with a nice photograph of Prestwick so
no it’s been um it’s been a nice way to
celebrate Silly Season I thought it was
a good little Christmas party
um very very good fun I I think um you
know big Reflections for the week you
know things like the top 100 golf
courses when we had so many people down
at the mixer and the event in in the
week so many people buzzing about the
excitement that that has and the
potential it has on the website
um feedback from the County Down films
been absolutely amazing loads to look
forward to as well feedback from the top
100 what was really nice about the mixer
and I I know we talked about earlier on
but
it’s quality to get just a whole
community of like-minded people that
just want to it’s cool like you you turn
up and you know you’ve got two sets of
people having a beer over there that
they play together in the first mixer
and then someone’s over there who bumped
into someone on the second mixer and
it’s just it’s the community that’s
growing around this is is genuinely
inspiring and um
you know thanks to you I suppose for all
the hard work and James on this occasion
putting the event on and you know may we
get many more yeah I think so there’s a
lot more to come on it and there’s some
also quite exciting news Tigers pack
tigers are gonna play next weekend yeah
just when the week can’t get any better
yeah you get the news that we’re gonna
see tiger back playing so
yeah it’s it’s on the the PNC isn’t it
in the last years we’ve actually got
loads of coverage as well that event
from this reason it’s cool for him
because he doesn’t have to go wailing on
it he can just sort of nibble it around
and it is playing off the junior tees
mate I think he will be going off the
tips well last year I believe they took
16 of 18 of Charlie’s drives anyway
no way I think so because it’s like I
think it’s a green Sims format yeah yeah
um so yeah I think they took 16 of 18 of
Charlie’s drives last year yeah so it’s
like and his game will have kicked on as
well you can guarantee in the last year
as well like he was playing great last
year from memory I mean Charlie’s Club
twirl is genuinely is going around on
Twitter they’re hopeless just filth it’s
just he’s there he’ll like he’ll hit
something and he’s just held the purge
phrase he does that tiger thing where he
leans back and then you get this twirl
that drops down it’s just completely
unrequired it’s so flare isn’t it if you
can pull it off I think you can overuse
a club 12. no they can’t no they can
kill as many as they want I can I mean I
knifed an iron into the sixth yesterday
I mean it was right out the bottom
Groove that point went careering through
the green seemed to remember I gave it a
club 12 I’m not quite sure why really
um
yeah but no it’s good to see it come
back and I think yesterday to
we yesterday was the day we we played at
rye and I think in total that day I
think I calculated we took five trains
two taxis two buses and drove for about
35 minutes when we London doesn’t lend
itself to a gulf and we played 18 holes
and launched yeah it doesn’t lend itself
to a big golf trip does it it’s not it’s
not an easy place to get around when
you’ve got these golf bags and Roy does
have um some some quality dormi
accommodation that we probably
could have taken advantage of
but um
no it’s been this is just a really short
short pod to essentially just thank you
all for your support throughout the year
thank you for supporting coming to the
event just to wax on about how good Rye
was and
I mean
we’re really just really thankful and
everything that we’ve had the
opportunities we’ve had this year so
yeah for sure it’s still down to
everyone who listens and and also
looking out to next year I think you
know the events are no doubt going to be
a bigger and bigger part things like
merchandise are going to start to come
down now quite thick and fast
um
and we’re about to go to the photo shoot
yeah photo shoot for the for some of
these I’m apparently going to be a model
I know I think we’re never gonna sell a
thing
um
yeah so there’s more stuff coming but I
think you know if people are curious
about the events if people want to find
out more just get in touch I’d like to
think we’re reasonably receptive on the
on the Inbox and the messages and stuff
we try and make sure everything kind of
gets covered there so
um yeah it’d be great to hear from more
people about that but uh until then
adios