One of our most popular guests from 2022 just so happened to be in Deal while we were down there over Christmas and we couldn’t resist popping a mic in his hands and having a chat! Paul talks about his incredible weight loss (sure to help with those January new years resolutions), why golf clubs have sailing masts as flag poles, and fills us in on the latest goings on at Royal Cinque Ports! As always with Paul, a fascinating, illuminating and wide-ranging discussion!
how are we doing anyway so welcome back a very popular First Time cast Paul
half the man you were when you were on this podcast back in I would say may I can’t actually see Paul he’s sideways on
though so I can’t if it’s like a barcode good morning gentlemen thank you very much you need yes it’s great to have you
back and and since I last saw you um yeah I’ve uh used some of my psychology
techniques to to affect my life and not on my golf course unfortunately yet but uh in terms of losing weight I’ve lost
30 kilograms since we last spoke that’s incredible amount and I’m certain that was it was made because we were down
doing our spring meeting weren’t we so that’s when we recorded it was so in just over six months 30 kilograms well I
started on July the 15th yeah Jesus having had a good day Lords
on the 14th I might just be buying new clothes like they’re getting like just constant yes it’s a good chance for my
wife to throw out all my horrible stuff that she just never liked anyway and and forced me to buy stuff that’s um more to
her taste so what’s the secret sauce Paul uh it’s all gonna be in the book Tom it’s all been the book which is
coming out next year the book is about um psychology golf magic but I mean and
business particularly about business but I’m going to include a chapter on Dart in the psychological tips and tricks
that you can do to make darting easy and fun what was they like what kick-started it why did you just suddenly go right
you know I’m gonna I’m gonna do this now uh I got to a weight that shocked me and
I was it was affecting my sleeping particularly the snoring and uh yeah that sort of stuff and so I went to see
a specialist who said basically he said um uh you’re too heavy and I walked out
of there and uh that was the day before Lords I went to Lords on the 14th and started on the 15th and uh here I am
still here oh all kind of hits home when a professional tells you you’re too heavy is doesn’t it when somebody knows
what they’re talking about it says you too they kind of smacks you in the face a bit well the interesting thing about we better get onto golf guys because
it’s supposed to be a golf podcast not a darting podcast but um as you know we have another member here who’s lost a
lot of weight we see he’s a good friend of yours I don’t know if I should name him but he’s a dear friend of mine and he and I did a lot of uh uh chatting
over WhatsApp as we were both losing weight at the time and and as he told me when you start to lose weight it does
affect your golf swing and and I thought well I’m not a very good golfer anyway I won’t notice much difference but
genuinely the timing and the the whole movement on the T but particularly for
tea shots I found um was was very different and I struggled I really struggled as a bad
golfer who struggles anyway but I’ve struggled even more but then having settled down to a much
better weight now um it’s all coming back now and the muscles are kind of relearning and are much more flexible
now so the swing is is is is hopefully a better looking swing he says grimacing
less less terrible totally different when you’ve lost like 30 kilograms you’re not turning around the ball but anyway but welcome back it was a great
podcast when we did it remember last time I think we were they were locking the clubhouse up weren’t they so if you
recall we were we were kind of on the clock a little bit yeah that’s not the first time I’ve been dragged out the bus
great great fun though what a what a great episode and down here today playing some golfer you know the
wonderful roasting ports and thought well you know let’s hook up again and have another chat because the people
have spoken they wanted more Craven it was high demand and we’ve we’ve we’ve answered the people well you’re
obviously involved in the club’s archives the history and everything here first thing I said when I got out the
car I want to mention it at the top of the Pod before we get going the sailing Mast outside the club
and the same that are awesome George’s I put a tweet out yesterday I’m determined to get the answer as to why we have
those sailing masts at golf club so you’ve got any idea uh golf clubs next to the Sea Maritime connection
that’s as simple as that I’m looking at you as confidently as I can possibly be
when I say that silly question yeah but you’re right it’s a feature of of Georges and and and deal and uh it’s
iconic really isn’t it and of course we’ve had it for a long long time and those of you who listen to the the first
podcast remember the the story I may have told about Walter Hagen Who Parked his car in in uh in his first British
Open in 1920 um outside the clubhouse by the flagpost uh to make a point that he wasn’t
allowed into the clubhouse and and sat there and changed his shoes Nate is lunch there parked by the flagpole uh
next to his car which actually I think was a about 10 or 15 yards further down than it is now but it’s it’s always been
there it’s iconic obvious Well they um we’re obviously kind of the other thing when we got here
is a bit of development stuff going on so I thought it’d be worth just catching up on a bit of news at deal so we’ve got all sorts of stuff happening in the Jack
air showroom I’ve heard there’s all sorts of stuff going on with the course rankings have come out it’s all very
exciting there’s lots happening if you want to give us a quick you know just for lesson well yeah welcome back to
deal I should say first of all and interesting I found out since I last saw you that um deal town has has had this
motto for hundreds of years which is Latin is a Jupiter ajuvetai advanus
which means befriend or welcome The Stranger guest so in classic real
Singapore’s Golf Club style we we love having visitors and guests here and uh
long mayor continue and of course we’re so lucky on this uh this little corner at the English Coast to have three
Championship golf courses so close so it’s a great place to come if if you want to come and have a little golf tour
um but also George’s princes and and Royal Saint Paul’s and uh you know he bought some lovely weather down today
but it’s a link you know Lynx course is a fascinating and challenging and you can play this course morning and
afternoon it can be a different course the wind turns around the weather changes the weather ball rolls it’s it’s
the most wonderful thing and I’ve been a member here now since the the 19 late 1990s and every time I play
it’s I find something I love and and you mentioned you know the course changes we’re having quite a lot of improvements
done uh in consultation with with experts um we’re putting in 15 new bunkers which
14 14 I think rewardian uh we are probably get to sort of the right number
of bunkers in terms of comparison with our peers um they’ve been positioned in some
deliciously exciting places for you good golfers don’t tend to affect us higher handicaps in quite the same way but they
make you really think of the tea you’ll see them today when you play I think 14 of the 15 are in Clarity in play as well
not yeah amazing how quick they work well you have staggeringly quick honestly we have the led by Ben Williams
we have the best ground staff in the country they’re amazing what you’ll notice the changes and I remember Clyde
telling us on the Pod it’s quite easy working in lynxground because you can just you just throw time you throw Turf down on top and you’ve got the sound
you’ve got the soil it’s quite easy to work with actually so they can get it back in play quite quickly you know so if it’s that easy you’re welcome to come
and join us four o’clock in the morning it’s quick isn’t it to go and get 14
bunkers straight back into play yeah I know anything in England play yet but you’ll certainly see when
you play today and the difference they make to the course and I have to say I I think it’s spectacular and I was you
know I always perceived anything I’d say about the golf course by saying I’m not a particularly good golfer go a high
handicapper but even I can recognize the improvements and the changes this will
mean for the good players uh and the teas are being leveled and then the
other the other big thing that’s happening at the moment which is I think quite exciting is all the t’s are being re-measured
re-regulated so we’re going to end up with five T’s of you know so I think that the courts now will that if you
depending on which T’s you played off I think the course will range from 4 300 yards from the very very very forward
Seas the back tees would be something like seven seven thousand four hundred yards that’s a beast and into the wind I mean
the back six holes which is you know you’ve got that a head-on Breeze you are the player described our last six Souls
is the most challenging in golf and into the breeze off the back tees I mean it don’t get out that’s the prevailing
Breeze going down and away so you play there second through to 12 whatever it’s
kind of helping you mostly and then you turn having stopped on the hat well of
course twice we didn’t talk about the Hut last time Tom you’ve have you had have you used that much when you’ve been
before yeah so I’ve only been once before and we stopped for a shovel well we had a bit of a divisive pole on uh
social media a few months ago when talking about sort of drinks at the
turn and I think the options were shovel or a chicken kiev I’d not heard of a chicken
clear yeah chicken yes be careful be careful about that drink well so what it is so so just for those those listeners
we have a halfway house Hut uh just after the uh the ninth green
um it is weatherproof uh it always gets ranked in all the times it gets
discussed about the best halfway Huts in the world and deal is right up there
um it’s a a place of Refuge during bad weather there have been games I played and here
where games have been abandoned because it’s a place of refuge and you can get a cab that get a cab call there
um so yeah it’s it’s particularly in the play places like the Halford Hewitt one of our our huge uh big amateur uh
foursomes competition um which gets played every year I think I think there the shovel is the most
popular drink which is a combination of Sherry and Bothell sounds disgusting I honestly thought they’re quite nice but
having tastes I’m coming round to it I’ve had one before that was horrible it’s put me off for a while and I had one recently I thought actually it’s not
too bad you need to use just the straightforward bovral don’t you the stuff that you stir in that’s like Mom like that with a bit of Sherry and some
water great Slugger showing and then you mentioned the chicken kiev which is something I have to say again doesn’t necessarily sound very
appealing but on a cold wet windy day you try getting a chicken cave down you which is vodka in a chicken soup it
works it just works the most gratuitous alcohol
additions to to drinks and it’s unbelievable that but might give one of world today
you think so perhaps you could do a sort of tasting you do a shovel versus yeah yeah I think so yeah yeah is the
weather’s a bit too nice today it’s a beautiful uh beautiful December day blue skies uh the Seas come it’s wonderful
yeah incredible you mentioned Ben earlier on obviously taken over from James
um I actually went out for dinner with Ben the other night um I was astounded how young he is and I
think obviously he worked with uh with pledge for a while um by All Counties
hit the ground running and really taking the course from strength and strength after James do you think it was quite a brave decision to go with with Ben
because he is he’s a young young man I do think it was a brave decision and I think it was absolutely the right
decision I was very keen I mean first of all trading up for a few years on the pledge was John the James badge who
obviously as we’ve talked about before was just did terrific things with with rule sing ports and now uh now he’s at
horlake uh and Ben has just stepped into James’s shoes and indeed
improved I mean improved himself massively he’s well experienced under under James but he’s
two things about him is one is he’s got lots of great ideas and two is he’s a very good communicator
now if you think about it if you’re someone who’s trying to to do things to achieve things to progress particularly
and you can communicate those ideas so people you carry people with you uh you
really are you know you’re starting off in the right face and I have to say the first impressions what it was you you
were to terrific absolutely terrific and and that um you know always sort of smile on his
face always happy to chat and tell you what’s going on and what he’s working on and what thinking about so it really has
it really has fitted in really well and very popular very popular with the man he’s a Welshman which is always good which is excellent yeah says a man who’s
half Welsh there we go you’re both Welsh ah not half Welsh
Welsh really yes you know that I didn’t know that where’s your accent gone uh
this year Paul marks the first year um yeah UFC Bud
um it’s lovely that I’ve been out of Wales for longer than I was in sort of now 19 years in England 18 years in
Wales which part of Wales pontyprid originally no it’s just outside Barry
Mark angle from poor school yeah not far from Portugal do you like to go there
every now and again the podcast Lots I absolutely love Royal I think it’s a wonderful Golf Course
well I actually started playing golf as a in my chair with my great uncle jack
uh he actually he ended up being uh president of Pine and kenvig golf course
yeah that’s why I started playing golf pal and kenvig is that so that’s where you started and then win London and then
yeah kind of did you join deal when you’re living in London or was it part of the time when I’m moving out the city
or what interesting my deal connection starts off in the late 60s because my my
dad and my uncle uh used to come down and play here during deal week before I
was born I should say and they actually they actually um they actually won the Downs Cup in 1961
which is so at least my surname is on the ball too my own particular name isn’t yet
um but uh yeah so they used to be great fans of deal week and they were members of Walton Heath in those days and so
deal week which is still going on still very strong by the way it’s a great time that’s just a week-long festival and you
name the format we play it’s a metal stableford foursome’s individual match play uh specific combinations just
quickly on this one Paul because I heard a story from a guy at our golf club that said he was down with his family in deal
it just happened to be deal week and he was in deal and he was with his family and they walk in the beach and they’re in the shorts and their flip-flops and
there was this he could see there was something going on at the golf club and he was a keen golfer and he just sort of poked his head over to see what was
going on and he said he bumped into someone a member of deal and said you know what what’s going on here you know
it’s it’s still awake you don’t have to wait with this big Festival of golf so come into the clubhouse no no I couldn’t
possibly I’ve got got my flip-flops on my shorts and earlier but just with the wife and kids and I thought they can all
come in and it’s just he said it was the most welcoming thing it’s like no come in and just enjoy it this is what the
week is about so the town’s motto yeah it’s almost in the DNA it’s weird like I
do think you know we talked a lot about this last time but the club’s DNA and the fact that that’s you know it’s very
noticeable you know there’s a qualities to this clove club that are strong that just stick with generations and it’s
bizarre how that stuff it almost gets passed on through generations subconsciously yeah because I mean Dad
and Rich came down here in the 60s to play until week uh I have childhood
members of sitting on the beach um uh or going to the the cafe having a
Knickerbocker Gloria a famous seaside um ice cream special I actually think
Knickerbocker glory is my favorite word it just didn’t like think of a word isn’t it I think it’s a great 5 000
calories worth says he um and um and and and over the years so
and then interestingly uh for various reasons um we kind of lost touch with deal more
moved away etc etc and then Uncle Rich moved back down to
deal in the late 90s and I came to see him and fell in love with the place just
and uh we bought a small uh holiday home down here and became a member here
and so the kind of rekindle the relationship and and uh you know it’s
quite interesting because um you know so sort of one realizes that
lots of families you mentioned the intergenerational thing there were families here who’ve you know grandsons fathers grandfathers you can’t
yeah or the hedges family um famous you know and look at the boards uh you won’t find my name on that
as I said earlier but um you’ll find lots of family names that go through if that one name that that’s on the board a
lot is uh an interesting connection with my dad actually um Peter Hedges who’s the Walker cup player okay
um Peter and David Hedges two brothers brilliant golfers absolutely brilliant
and and really um uh very successful uh both here at deal and Elsewhere on
the on the gothic circuit and Peter’s a World Cup player and he told me the story a couple of years ago which I
didn’t know was that he was playing with my father back in it could have been deal week but a competition down here
back in the early 60s and and Peter said and you do realize Paul that’s when I switched from being a
he said I had a golfer from being a right-handed putter to being a left-handed putter in the middle of a
round with your father you know this is a walk up there you know he changed his game playing with my dad down here so uh
weird I kind of wanted to talk about playing with that ability can do that but I wanted to ask him which green was
it on you know geeky like that where was it exactly but anyway um so lots of fascinating family
connections with this place generational connections and uh and along that continue and and I think again the club
has been really really good at uh doing that fostering that and it gives a sort
of history and Longevity and continuity about it that is is really special really special
but will was welcoming visitors as I said earlier and yes amazing we obviously sat looking over Andrew
reynolds’s shop Andrew’s been with the club for how long now well it will be uh retires next year
44 45 years I mean it’s a it’s a record because I’ve never been in the back room his little office I’ve seen little
pictures I’m hoping I can talk away in that I’ll take you over there after this I finished this discussion is he is he
the longest serving Club professional as in not if it didn’t deal in Britain
uh I don’t you’d have we’ll have to ask him but I certainly for a long time but
he said in the longest serving Pro here because our first pro was Harry Hunter uh uh not even sure it was called a
professional those days but 1892 who I think did 43 years so Andrew’s Gone past
him and uh next year we’re doing some special things to celebrate uh Andrew’s
long and happy massive change it’s a constant of the club for so long like
that’s yeah huge huge um and he’s done such an amazing job and he’s such a welcoming face here as well
as well as being a great golfer he’s you know enjoy considerable success on the golf course but uh you you come to deal
and if you lucky enough to bump into Andrew you’re gonna get a huge smile yeah a meet and greet and no doubt hear
some of his stories I confess I’ve heard some of them more than once but they are
brilliant um over the years and and you know and it’s fascinating because you know we have you know he’s played with
some of the great golfers and if I was I was actually lucky enough this year to to play in something in the the charity
day for something that’s called the Grand match which is something that Peter Alice and Bruce literally started
many many years ago yeah which is Walker cup versus Ryder Cup next former players it’s a fantastic day and it’s been going
for many many years now and this is the first year without Peter of course
um being here but um uh there’s a kind of um I I played in the sort of they have a sort of um
a guest day and then they play the serious stuff later on and this year Andrew played with Manuel Pinero really
I followed them around for a bit and that’s amazing watching them play golf and and it was just terrific and and
Andrew holds his own absolutely and more so and if that Panera said to me if we said Andrew Reynolds is amazing he’s
amazing golfer and uh to see that so so you know we’ll uh I’ve enjoyed knowing
Andrew for my 25 years or something but uh others are no longer is he going to
move far away is he staying still going to be around the town and he’s going to be around he’s going to be more than that that’s good he’s a future Captain
right well really amazing yep it’s incredible um you touched on Walker cup there
obviously we don’t know what the future holds but there’s three years currently not confirmed for the Walker cup it’s
possible that we might say walk a cup come to the rossing port wouldn’t that be lovely wouldn’t that be lovely yep
would be brilliant what a venue for it yeah well I mean all I can say is that from from the stuff that’s the way the
course is playing at the moment and we’ve had some good stuff uh in recent years we’ve got the the open qualifiers
again coming back um I I just want lots of people to come play and see it it’s it’s really really
wonderful do you think it plays well as a match play course still for those people who have not been to deal do you think it plays some courses I think are
just better um stroke play course as a match play course deal plays well as a match play
course absolutely I mean David there’s an awful lot of match played here um you know the original one of the
original the original sort of game of golf in many ways was a lot of match play and um I think
those last six holes we as I say we mentioned them earlier but when you turn into the wind and you come in and it’s
you know what and the fact is you know the 18th you’ve got the the dike there’s you have on the first you’ve got a
character do I go for it do I get into the wind it’s it’s big changes on 18 I’ve heard big changes with some of the
cool stuff that’s that’s one of the holes that’s had some modifications done right yep there’s a new bunker on the right hand side so uh so again if you’re
looking at standing on the tee you’re looking out um traditionally you aim aim right aim at the flagpole or the the bridge those
are the two lines from the 18th TI was always told um you’ve got to be a bit careful now because there’s a there’s a bunker there
waiting to swallow up uh if you if you push it slightly right so it’s I mean it’s just it just makes you think so
much more now it’s it’s brilliant absolutely brilliant and I you know love to know what you think about it but I
can’t wait I’ve got your new pattern green out the front how’s that how’s that gone down I saw when that was uh opened and now the the pattern challenge
out there um looks like a fabulous little bit of land out there yeah it’s it’s amazing I think it’s let me I think I’m not saying
it maybe the largest single area putting green in the country I could be wrong on that by the way and
I’m sure one of you listening is the Valley of the blind just saying never lose sight of that let
me say more properly yeah it’s the biggest area passing Green in the country it’s a lot of the great videos of 2022 that I think the the opening
with so three or four of you in the deal Blazers you know they get the spirit of the game had never been more alive than
when that putting green has been opened in the summer that’s right the four of them didn’t they and then videos and of course Andrew Reynolds held the part the
longer part it’s typical unbelievable unbelievable I guess it’s things like the changes the patting green everything
uh you may have seen this week uh came out uh today’s golfer which is I think I
think golf world came out with a new rankings and I think the top hundred
playable courses in the world yeah eye courses you can get on and play and I’m delighted to say that that little
Singapore steel has uh has armored in the top 50 that’s amazing I think because of the model of British and
Irish golf I think there’s a really strong representation of Brooklyn Island in that list and it’s really nice to see
that you know deal quite high up in that ranking yeah yeah but it’s just accessible that’s where the club put a
lot of not quite a lot of stocking because it is important to do well in the rankings but often it’s
at the same time it’s unimportant because it’s about it’s a members Club you know and um is that something the club is very
proud of or puts a lot of stock in I wouldn’t say no I wouldn’t say that lists are that they’re a nice sort of
byproduct of people say nice things about this but they’re not they’re not the aim of the aim is to welcome people
that the majority of the girls let the members uh love it I mean we you know we’ve been very lucky uh the last few
weeks you know the court a lot of courses have been closed with this bad weather uh deals dead open and the main
greens have been open um so again Ben’s done doing an amazing job there and uh but it’s all this sort
of thing like what’s good for the geese is good for the gander and there’s the whole area sort of going well yeah
playing princess yesterday second time we’ve been to princes this year in fantastic condition whole thing’s
excellent you know princes raised their game Deal raise their game George’s keep raising their game and the whole those
three clubs continually improving makes the whole packaged area and the whole whole experience of it down is so good
like it’s really good every time my comments like it’s impossible to you know explain just how good it really is
down here in terms of the three clubs and the way they kind of yeah it’s a great relationship across them isn’t it I think yeah and there is so unique and
and it is it is unique because you can’t find three Championship courses that close to each other anywhere in the
world no and but yeah it’s trying to sort of they’re all sort of swimming in their own Lanes as well you know they’re
all doing their own thing brilliantly well which makes the whole you know the sum you know greater than its parts
almost yeah and you’ll remember um uh I think the last podcast we talked about this this competition that uh called the
Hagen hoof which is again you’ll see a photo in the halfway house up of some previous Hagen hoof teams
um the idea of playing three courses in the summer uh on the same day uh match play
competition uh uh no it’s not actually he’s we uh we collect over the points in that one how vulgar um but um
um that and that’s amazing and and uh get the three courses played in the same day and we had a very special
competition and uh very lucky to have played that myself Tom do you know Paul played 54 holes yesterday
the winter solstice played 54 holes in a day around here yep
around here around the area I’m starting to see where the weight loss is going on 54 holes in a day is quite extreme was
that just as a a challenge to see what you could do while the was done I better better fess up it wasn’t here at all
Singapore’s it was just up the coast at the North fallen and they have the most wonderful little pathway course which is
a Hidden Gem by the way again come to the Kent Coast find unifying these hidden gems everywhere but they’ve got a
18 hole path recalls and uh the secretary actually James Lear who sat in
his office now we’re sat in his office recording this but he takes a little gang of people out you have to wear
Santa suits and silly hats and Elvis and we got three rounds in before having
a nice lunch in there I want to say that next time we come down for sure yeah the only one you said James as well James
Lear yeah he all nights of the day and the bugger got a hole in one on the fifth and so I’ve only heard the story
15 times having watched it happen as well um in fact if he walks back into his office you should maybe ask him about it
but uh um we are in his office by the way I should say a little bit about the staff because uh in the office because having
mentioned the green staff um that welcoming to visitors and strangers and indeed making sure the
members are happy this this office staff here is phenomenal and uh James was
appointed uh as a as a very young secretary not too many years ago and has
really stepped up and thrilled done an amazing job uh light appreciated uh by
everybody a very fair uh very welcoming very generous of spirit
um I think his other claim to fame is if you if you are lucky enough ever to have lunch with him in his office he’ll open
a draw on his desk and he’ll they’ll show you what he keeps in his bottom left-hand jaw which is the most
extraordinary collection of chili sauces the world has ever seen he’s got Chile sauces small around the world and he’ll
he’ll pull one out and say try this on your chips or something I’m gonna bring him one back from Argentina I didn’t
actually he’s got quite enough in there already can you talk to us about Argentina say just come back from there
yeah I just thought of color well I I was lucky enough to um to get invited on
a a golf tour that consisted of some former Medics from Charing Cross Hospital and some raw Singapore’s golf members
and we have a member in common of both those groups uh Professor Simon Barton
uh he’s a good dear friend of mine and he puts together a tour every year or two and this year was Argentina and we
played Cricket in golf so we had two games of cricket and four games of golf in Argentina and it was caused during
the World Cup the outside place was buzzing anyway yeah yeah uh based in Buenos Aires and
um wonderful golf courses what’s the Golf Scene like over there because it’s so far away it’s a
completely different culture so just curious to know is there sort of shades of almost sort of old colonial style
British clubs there and he got things like the Jockey Club is you know that’s like their most famous course I believe
I’m guessing here yeah the Jockey Club was all culture like it’s got my favorite of the four courses we played because it has it’s very historical yeah
and one gets a great sense of that one walks of the clubhouse but then we played some Modern clubs like uh Panara
which is um a Jack Nicklaus design course fascinating and
uh I I I I I honestly I’ve only paid for there it’s a nice culture around the
gulf you know kind of feels you know club culture again it’s all fairly recognizable
bit too much affordable for my liking but uh um yes no it’s wonderful and and of
course it’s in fantastic condition absolutely fantastic addition out there so it’s just somewhere that
you know I don’t know why I am now but I still get surprised at some places play golf Argentina that just surprises me
you know it’s not somewhere jockey club’s McKenzie design as well isn’t it and Mackenzie and and lots of Mackenzie
type features you know the sloping Rolling Greens that you think not much to it and then suddenly womb yeah a yard
in Europe 20 20 yards away and you’ve got a very difficult and you’re now scrubbing to you know to make a pokey
so it’s one of the Highlight the golf or The Cricket uh the cricket really playing Cricket
yeah playing Cricket in the middle of bonuses it’s just fantastic yeah and uh so you’re obviously had your big your
big weight loss have you always played a lot of cricket or is it something you can do more but you can do more now uh
yes I’ve actually found it found it much easier to feel funny enough yeah I was
run out when I was batting but as I’ve always been but I can’t I can’t blame being too slows it was a terrible run
cool bummer partner for the team but um no no the cricket
and goal for me uh two two sports I’ve been inextricably linked with all my life I mean I ran my own cricket team as
well I’ve my dad started it back in 1986 and we go on tour every year it’s an old Devon
called Craven’s Cavaliers we’ve now got grandchildren of the original tourists
playing that’s awesome we played two or three games of um uh cricket uh well we
played two games in Devon and one game in Wiltshire and I now lucky enough to tag that on with some golf because
there’s a hickory Gulf um at saunton Sands and uh Royal North
Devon which happens to take place in the two days before my Cricket tour oh nice yeah so um I’ll go down a bit earlier to
play some hickory girlfriend I think about the MCC which you’re playing right that’s you know that’s got a huge golfing Circle just within that as well
hasn’t it like that’s some amazing stuff um all the clothes talking about the books coming out next year heuristics
business weight loss it’s all going to be in there any other kind of tip that you can give
us from stuff you’ve been working on recently in the book anything that’s fresh in the mind I I really do like the
heuristic stuff that we talked about last time I found that stuff we went fascinating we photographed the last one
but we were um we’re a man down so we’re not photographing this podcast but before the podcast started we offered
poor the choice of colored microphones and it’s Paul’s currently got the orange I’ve got the red Sam’s got the I’d say
there’s a like a hot pink I like my pink one and here’s this stuff’s interesting
because I I’m almost certain Paul could have made me pick whatever he wanted to make some money but I would have just
been at his whim but um he made me at least feel like I had a choice that was nice all right let’s let’s just share a
little game Christmas game I know let’s do a magic trickery yeah okay so
um everyone is listening this I want you just to um to hold up your your right next finger in the air
and drawing it down do a big number six in the air so do it a few times just do a big number six with your right index
finger okay that’s facing me or facing you no facing you as a demonstriction
everyone’s doing number six now right so forget about your right finger now just just leave your leave your hand alone
just focus on your right foot only and just start spinning your right foot if
you’re sitting down or standing up slowly then like in a clockwise Direction your right foot in the clock
once don’t do this if you’re driving but everyone now is now now don’t do it
yet I’m going to ask we’re gonna go keep your foot spinning around all the time clockwise in a second don’t do it yet
don’t jump the gun and we’re gonna ask you to do the number six with your right hand as your foot is spinning round let
me tell you what will happen before you do it when you try and do a number six with your right index finger as your
right foot is spinning around it will turn your right foot from going clockwise to anti-clockwise right give
that go do a number six how does that work well hang on I’ve got
to be able to do this this is this is mind over matterport I have to
so bizarre isn’t it like why why what’s happening you’re buying their chicks it’s just
your mind plays tricks and that’s yeah it’s just now again
I mean I don’t know how much it is you’re worth it is it like shared neural Pathways or something like that or is
that’s exactly what it is that’s exactly what it is and and you can’t send the right
um commands down it just gets blocked it’s gonna hit one has to change and in this case it changes your foot around
from nine o’clock once 90 clockwise similar thing I heard about that the other day about neural pathways is that
Paul I’m sure you know much more about this than I do but apparently like there’s only so much
the information of the brain can receive at any point from from anything if you feel or or whatever so when you cut
yourself or hurt an area the actual the physical rubbing of it actually reduces
the pain because it sends the feel of rubbing up to the brain so you can feel
it which cuts out some of the pain bits that are going up so the actual physical that’s why rubbing helps that’s why
rubbing actually cuts out the pain a little bit
amazing is that a nonsense sounds very credible to me you look at me like I’m an imbecile
yeah no I’m I’ll I’ll do some investigation Research into that Tom I’ll look it up
well I just uh here is this a little bit more good okay do you find do you have
to stop yourself from using it on a day-to-day basis because I think if I had the magic powers you had I just think I’d be getting everything I
want I’ll just be Sam would be playing my goal for me he’d be making my Cups of Tea in the morning
do you find I think you’re talking about hypnosis and mind control and no I don’t I don’t um but you help with sort of this
decision I think no I think you’re influencing well yes no so that the book I’m I’m I’m writing in
um I’ve almost finished it actually with about 55 000 words so far it is all
about it’s all about how to use uh little psychological I call them tips and tricks tricks if you like to to make
things a little bit easier and I talked about some of the ones I’ve used for for to help me lose weight but this is
really about I mean the book is really about how to be more influential more persuasive to be a better communicator
and what things can you do um now some people might say all these
are mind games they’re not my interest in thinkable Behavioral Science is about how real people
make real decisions in the real world it’s not about mind control here so how do you how do you better get across your
message so I’ll give you one small little example um I’m sure listeners have been walking
along the street before and someone’s confronted them for a survey you know come up with a clipboard and said would you help me for a survey now I’m not
saying you would but a lot of people walk on or keep their head down or pretend they’re looking at their phone to avoid to avoid someone coming up with
them with a clipboard saying will you helping the survey and actually if you do the numbers you’ll find that something like 30 roughly just under 30
of people will stop and help someone who say will you help me with a short survey now so how can how can the person doing
the survey be more effective at getting a higher number of people to stop and there’s lots of things you can do but
psychology says just just ask another question ask a different question the
first question is you approach someone’s excuse me so well Madam would you consider yourself a helpful person what
happens is 90 of people stop look up and go yes yes I am and then you say would
you mind helping with this survey and then I guess so many people then say they did a survey almost three quarters
of people will help when they’re certainly no way really so you take the number up from 29 to almost three quarters of all people will help in the
survey by asking that question beforehand just reframing it by well by saying would you say hello and it’s a
thing but the Bob cialdini the psychologist calls consistency or commitment you’ve already said you’re a
helpful person you can’t then not help with the server you need to be consistent I’m giving you the opportunity to validate what you’ve just
told me otherwise you create this thing called cognitive dissonance in your head which means that you’re sort of interrupting your own neurological yeah
and uh oh yeah well I will do it so so again so it’s little the book is my book
is full of things like that um and again is that mind control no that’s just how real human beings work
and behave so use that stuff uh to to be better now didn’t you say there’s something to do with pitch smart
repairs or something the ones with they changed the sign and yeah it completely changed the number of people that were
repairing pitch marks on the green yeah wasn’t this something to do with helpful golfers well we we we came up with a
yeah so when James was James Pledge was here we we were a problem with all Pathways is if if people don’t repair
their pitch marks um it can be um pretty irritating
uh for those that for the for the staff and for those that follow and then it’s such easy so easy to do and you know
most golf courses have signs saying please repair pitch marks and things it doesn’t seem to work quite as well as it could
so we were messing around with some psychological ideas um about what you could say on a sign
that would make people more likely to to repair their pitch marks and James asked
me to see if I could help and I came up with one which I think has had a better than better than most
um uh success in getting better once it’s not perfect because people aren’t but and I come with the science it
sounds like um 100 of all considerate golfers repair their pitch marks
does the same thing oh I’m a considerate golfer yeah well there you go I’ve got to do this now I think it’s on the
fourth by the way you’ll see it on the fourth those guys that’s gonna accompany this podcast I think I think so I think
so I think I read somewhere about speeding um
the the the rate the success rate they had getting people to slow down in residential areas was dramatically
increased by doing the smiley face and sad face as opposed to showing you numbers because there’s this
I can’t remember I was reading it but there’s this connection where you’re like I’m making something unhappy here
and can you slow down because whereas you see numbers you think oh the 33 in
the 30 zones fine no I I had something similar to that where was it I had a golf course it was a it was a kind of
Parkland um uh Golf Course around a hotel
and it was a long drive up to the hotel in the countryside and he had something
like speed limit and they’d had the sign said speed limit I think it was
19. as opposed to 20 years to 20. and the
moment you saw that was it maybe nine instead of ten but it was it was it was a strange number yeah and it made me
immediately think oh I wonder why they’re doing that what’s my speed yeah and of course it makes sure that you and
again something that interrupts the normal flow of thinking just just sort of breaks you away from that it could be
quite powerful it can make you consider and then guess what you you stick to it and and so this is this is this is a
golf is the ultimate game of psychology in many ways it’s played save in the Years
um a lot of it and and so you know my fascination with with psychology with persuasion with
Behavioral Science with with magic indeed is is all related to how the mind does and doesn’t always work and uh a
long mayor continue fantastic Paul it’s been great getting you back onto the podcast just just before you go I don’t
know if this is in the your future pool but once the book is published can you please do an audio book because I’d love
to hear you talking me through your book I just want to hear your voice just in my car for 20 hours 55 000 words is a
it’s a big big book um please do an audiobook burns are going to be published early next year
I’m hoping it’ll be sometime in the first half of next year we’ll we’ll we’ll see and there’s there’s lots of it
won’t surprise you know there’s lots of it’s not an academic book I would say I mean this is very important I’ve had you know uh 30 years working in the city for
for Schroeder’s Pimco and Goldman Sachs um I’ve got a lifetime of doing magic a
lot of time I’ve been interested in sport cricket and golf uh love of psychology
it’s all going to be in there and it’s so it’s full of love lots of lots of lots of personal anecdotes and um
uh you know including some stories from the golf club here I mean there’s and there’s lots of sort of irony in humor I
hope hope in there as well to make some serious yeah it’s not starchy it’s just bouncing our stories about things you
say um I better finish with one today from deal I think uh there’s so many from here and and a few of them might
make the book um uh which one shall I give you oh it was
a true story we didn’t talk about um this last time I don’t think we did if we did stop me but um
um Uncle Rich was um the late Uncle Rich was uh was in the bar here and he was this isn’t the Gins is it
this there this isn’t the gym no okay no that’s the one where I’ll leave the size up to you yeah that was a great that was
Johnny Gould um well Japan is quite an old story but I’ve never heard anybody else say it anyway
um so rich was in the barn chatting with a guy who was down to play golf and Richard again deal welcoming to visitors
uh got chatting with him and said where are you from and um
the guy said I’m I’m I’m I’ve lost you and I’m looking forward to the gulf here today and Richard being Richard sort of
immediately sort of talking about um uh skiing because Richard was a great skier
and uh the guy said oh where’s your favorite place to ski in which it went well I love kit spill and I love he said
I love going down the uh the um uh the Hanan Khan and the mouse trap
and uh he said well I don’t go as fast as friends clamor yeah and the guy looked at him and smiled and said I am
friends no way what a great story to close on Paul been
great catching up again thank you so much for joining the pardon yeah all the best for next year but big thank you for
for yeah been a great guest this year thanks very much for having me
