Sam & Tom catch up with DJ Piehowski to get deep into ‘hashtag the process’ around the NLU film room, hear about his career in golf and how he came to work with the rest of the No Laying Up crew. After a hugely successful series of Tourist Sauce season 8 in Scandanavia we wanted a peak behind the curtain on how DJ brings all this together!
hello and welcome back to another episode of the cookie jar golf podcast I am Tom Mills and today I’m joined by Sam
Williams and we are joined by DJ piehowski from no Laying up
in this pod we chat to DJ about his role in no laying up and the latest series of
tourist sauce and the film’s just been done at Kapalua with JT and Jordan Spieth I’ve been wanting to catch up
with DJ for a while now because he is the film star over at no laying up and I
wanted to pick his brains about filming and the process of things they go through over there and I think it’s fascinating insight as to
how they operate but uh I think you’ll enjoy watch this
your week’s been fairly busy by the looks of it very busy yeah I’m uh I
didn’t know if I was going to be up at like 2 A.M or I didn’t know if I was going to sleep until noon today but it was uh yeah I had a red eye coming back
from Hawaii and uh yeah long week long week but all good stuff which is good
has that been in the daughter for a while uh sort of the it’s funny the uh
uh yeah we were planning just to shoot with Justin when we got over there and then all this
title stuff kind of came together and it was a very natural fit and Justin came to us and was like Hey I you know I hope
you guys don’t mind but I’m traveling with Jordan like do you think it’d be okay if Jordan joined us as well we’re like well I don’t know let me let me see
how many mics we have we can see if we can we can make it work uh so yeah so it
was in the books for a little bit but it just kind of kept getting better and better which was which was fun so
unbelievable film around so quick how long did you have in the edit room on that uh we shot that on the twin what
did we shoot that we shot that on the 31st and then we had uh what did we do we had
the first to work on it and then we had another shoot all day on the second and then we had the third to work on it so
it was like a I don’t know probably probably like 36 hours and then it kind of had to be uh it had to be done didn’t
have to but you know it has to come out kind of like during tournament week and then the tour was very good about us you know allowing
you know kind of allowing us to film it on site and all of that stuff the the one thing that they don’t really want is like well you know don’t like put it out
while we have competitive golf going on which is a very fair a fair ask so it kind of needed to be done Wednesday
night uh so yeah it’s kind of once you know the deadline you kind of get just gotta gotta make it work so it worked
worked out okay I mean the film it is something we’re going to touch on hopefully in the uh as this goes on but I mean 36 hours to work on something
that’s long like an hour that’s that’s tricky it is and I don’t know if you guys I’m
sure you guys uh feel this as well but sometimes it’s almost harder to make it short right like when you have something
like that it’s it’s easy to just string it out and luckily the mic packs that we use and stuff is all
running on time code so it’s like everything’s kind of synced already so you’re kind of just taking it Taking it
from here to here which is is you know quote unquote kind of like the easy part and then it where it gets really hard is
taking it from like here to here and yeah uh obviously uh you know that that
was kind of one where we’re like well listen like we’re not going to have these guys a ton in our videos so more
is probably better than less let’s just kind of leave it fat and uh chunky and all that stuff we always like to joke
um you know I don’t know if we started recording already if I’m if I’m burning all my gems here off Mike but the uh we
always like to say that like you know we’re not as esoteric and kind of punchable as this might sound we’re not
really like a a media company we’re almost more like a band right and and there’s kind of five of us that are are
more like the Dynamics of like how a band would operate than like a media company and uh so this one we’re like well we’ll
just picture this as like a live album right you know it’s kind of like it’s kind of chunky and unorganized and
organic and uh you know there’s gonna be some mistakes and things aren’t going to sound quite as good but you know
sometimes that’s better so that was at least gave me a little bit more peace about um putting it out there well we’ve got
that gem on Mike didn’t we so that’s okay yeah wasted it DJ don’t have don’t have to say that one twice okay don’t
panic as soon as you win on the the immediate record started because uh we don’t know what’s what’s going to come
up but thank you very much for um for agreeing to to come on and speak to us I know that it’s been you’ve got a crazy
schedule at the moment and stuff um while we’re talking about that filming and you know like you just said
the live the live album um do you find sometimes it’s difficult so
I think something that we struggle with a little bit is is trying to like the Quest for perfect
I suppose is it difficult to to just be satisfied with I think this is I
think this is good enough to go out because we’re you know you’ve got time restraints and you’ve got deadlines you need to hit have you gotta sometimes
just think yeah okay this is this is good enough let’s get it out yeah and I think that there’s a couple different ways to go
with that but I think like where we have almost been our our own best friend and
Our Own Worst Enemy is that we don’t really know what we’re doing on anything and that has caused us to instill some
outrageous deadlines on ourselves to the point where like kind of what I was saying with the Hawaii stuff is like we
were getting a little better at it now and and you can kind of see around the corner and like okay that’s going to take this long and that’s going to take
X and we’re trying to build in more downtime and stuff but especially when you get into like a tourist sauce season
or something like that which is like the the big travel uh kind of travel show that we do on YouTube
we start out with the greatest of intentions and like okay we’re gonna start working on this thing months in
advance and by the time episode one comes out episode 7 is already going to be done you know and uh that works for a
while and eventually you just kind of start catching yourself and eating your own tail and and you just like get to a
point where it’s just like all right it it’s done like it’s done because it has to come out tomorrow and so a lot
of those like self-imposed deadlines I I think could almost be helpful for us because the suffer we do take a lot of
time like I don’t know that it necessarily always I think it comes out looking um looking and sounding a little better
right like it’s a little more polished and it’s a little more um kind of like perfect quote unquote
but that almost always comes at the soul of like or at the at the cost of like some of that soul and I think why a lot
of people like our stuff is it does feel very organic and it feels like it was produced by you know feels like that’s
what it would look like if you and your buddies went out and like produced something and I think I always saw that for a long time as like a negative right
of of like oh God like I wish it would look like you know like someone who actually knew what they were doing produced it uh but I I think I’ve kind
of leaned into that and accepted that a lot more as like a positive rather than a negative over the years and and so
it’s it’s kind of hard to do that sometimes when you’re the one kind of pushing publish or you’re the one in the in the edit trying to make it
looking sound as good as possible um and it’s also hard I’m sure you guys know from from doing this it’s you know
that’s kind of been the feedback from a lot of people it’s like oh we don’t really care like what it looks like just put it out faster and it’s really hard
it’s really hard when you are sitting there in the edit and you know that like oh man if I just took you know if I just
took another hour this would not look this way anymore or I could fix the color on this or I could like once you see the issues like I think back in the
day this was never a problem for me because I didn’t really know what I didn’t know and I didn’t know what the
issues were and so it was just kind of like oh I don’t know this this looks as good as I can do just put it out there and it’s almost like the more you learn
about you know I didn’t go to film school or or photography school or anything like that so it’s almost like
the more you learn about cameras and editing and you know storytelling to an extent the more uh warts you kind of see
on everything and that’s where it gets really hard to actually like start to ignore that stuff and consciously put it
out with all that in there but I don’t know that’s a long rambling answer but I think all of that kind of adds up to
um you know putting out something that that kind of checks all of those boxes like is it timely is it good enough can
people see and hear what’s going on all right then let’s let’s put it out there hey John I’m conscious that we’ve kind
of rolled into into the into the weeds here pretty quickly and I’ve got a high degree of faith that a lot of people
listen to this pod know of you and your band already but for those that don’t do
you wanna how would you best summarize I guess no laying up what you do what your role is and maybe a little bit about how
you got there as well because I think that I don’t know all of that stuff and I’d be quite curious sure uh so we are
you know I know we just said I just got done saying we’re not a media company but that probably is the best way to describe it to anybody who’s never never
heard of it we are a golf company is the easiest way to say it we have a I think
I probably are most um traffic thing or our best well-known thing is our podcast we put out a
podcast twice a week that covers the pro game uh recreational golf golf architecture kind of whatever the news
of the day is um that’s called the no laying up Podcast and then I where I fit in is I
kind of in addition to being a sometimes guest on that podcast I am kind of like our video EP so I I
kind of help get all the video stuff out the door from concepting to shooting to
editing to you know whatever kind of needs to be done and luckily that’s been a little bit more
um dispersed over the past couple years and and kind of getting some more help and having everybody else on the team
kind of feel a little more comfortable with with taking stuff on and I think that’s really why our stuff has looked
started to look and sound a lot better is getting more hands on it but that’s kind of what I do as far as background I
uh have been in golf for man like a sneaky long time I’m starting to realize how old I’m getting now but
uh I graduated college in 2010 started working for golf Week Magazine okay for
a couple for a couple years after that uh starting right there in like 20 the fall of 2010 uh which was really funny
doing the the video with uh Jordan and and Justin uh I think I met both of them
when they were like 15 or 16 because golf week used to do this like I mean they still do to an extent but they they
used to have a really awesome college and Junior Golf coverage program where like they were kind of the leaders in
that space of covering like here’s who’s coming up next uh type of stuff and so
the first time I remember I was an intern at golf week and uh there was
this this tournament I think it was the FootJoy Invitational uh it was like this big ajga kind of like an ajga major and
I remember all the other kind of people that I worked with who all have gone on to you know now they work at the PGA Tour and Golf Channel and and all these
people the the golf week young Alumni club is pretty uh pretty visible in the golf world now but uh I remember they
were like oh this kid from Kentucky won like he’s not ever gonna win anything else like just have we got to get some quotes from them just have DJ call him
uh and that was Justin Thomas and so like it’s kind of funny now just seeing
seeing like the whole Arc of their careers and anyways that’s a very that’s a side tangent so I worked there for a
couple why did he get why did he get dismissed why was he like guys just won something it’s not going to be well
honestly I think it was a lot of like you know impact or what you can kind of see uh
you could kind of see even in those days like you know the guys were Jordan and
Patrick Rogers and Emiliano Grio and a lot of these guys who have like gone on to amazing careers but I think Justin
was one that you know was definitely definitely definitely I don’t want to say Late Bloomer like obviously
went on to do amazing things at Junior Golf and college golf but I think he he was just a little slower on that track
and he wasn’t from Texas he wasn’t from California he wasn’t from Florida he was from Kentucky and I think it just took a
tiny bit longer and that was kind of like his first big win so I think he just wasn’t quite on the radar yet but he was still 14 or 15 years old
something like that so especially shortly after that that doesn’t matter like where you’re from in terms of is it
like the exposure to the golf or what what was that matter I think it’s just easier to get on get on the radar right
like it’s it’s easier because I think that there’s a lot more tournaments in those places so you know for someone
like Justin who like everybody always likes to say like oh God his dad was a his dad’s a PGA professional and you
know he grew up as his country club kid I don’t totally know that that was the case I mean I think it came from like a very normal family very normal golf
course and they’re just not having a lot of like super world-class tournaments in Goshen Kentucky right whereas Jordan is
growing up in Dallas and you know there’s there was a lot like Anthony palucci I remember was like this amazing
Junior player of that same class and in that same ilk and he’s in Southern California and there’s just a lot more
like tournaments in those places so it’s a lot easier to for those kids to get to those big
tournaments and it just becomes you know if you think about it like that it’s it’s just a lot harder for a kid like Justin to get on a you know
to go take an eight-hour drive to Chicago or to take a flight to San Francisco or to you know to get to some
of those like tournaments where you’re really going to get showcased and I mean we can that’s a whole other podcast right if you you think about like all
the all the problems with Junior Golf and how you actually get on the radar and and all that stuff it takes a while
but um anyways so that I obviously loved that job as you can tell from my voice
that was very fun uh covering that and getting to know a lot of those people and um shortly after that I worked there for
about two years and then started working for the PGA tour which was in uh Ponte Vedra Beach Jacksonville Florida area
worked there for six years or so five six years something
like that uh and while I was there I was doing a little bit of everything it was It was kind of awesome uh it was right
as social media was getting started so I was I think my job technically was social media coordinator
and in those days it was like just as Twitter and Facebook and Instagram are kind of like not really getting off the
ground but like brands are starting to get involved and especially like very slow moving Brands like the PJ tour are
starting to to get involved and so it was kind of like uh you know they’d have all these meetings with kind of
higher-ups and and stuff like that and it was almost like a token like oh make sure the social media team’s there like
apparently this is a thing we got to be doing now and so I got to like be in all these these pretty high level meetings
and just learn a ton about how the tour operates how sales Works how players
relationship with the tour works how the players travel how the tournament sponsorships work like all of those
things just by being in all those meetings and not only that but again it was it was like very early days
and my background was like writing so I was like a journalism major uh so I was
it was fine to work at golf week and it was fine to kind of like craft tweets but then it all of a sudden as the
social platform started to change super rapidly it was like oh I should probably learn like you know what exposure means in a camera
and I should probably learn like how to edit a video you know even a 15 second video and so I kind of just all that
stuff layered on top of it itself uh to the point where I was kind of starting to realize like
the way I’ve always kind of said it is starting to kind of realize like there’s Golf and there’s Pro Golf and I think I
really really like golf uh and you know the PJ tour is awesome and it was a
great place to to do a lot of amazing things and travel and meet people and whatever but I was kind of hitting a
point where I was like man I kind of just want to go see the rest of the golf world and and really focus on like what
I love about the game rather than just the pro game and so kind of started to get an itch in the back of my mind I’m
like man I’ve seen these these no laying up guys and I listen to their podcast and man it really seems like we could do
some fun stuff travel wise and uh you know try to do a lot of other golf not
just Pro Golf things and uh so put a bug in their ear about that and ended up jumping off the cliff in 2017.
uh to work with them and kind of the rest is the rest is history so so you
weren’t part of the original no Lane upset tonight because I always assumed you were there from the beginning no
they were they all started in like 2014 I believe um and I was like to joke I mean I think
I I was probably one of the first 10 listeners of their podcast just because it’s so in my wheelhouse and uh doing
the Social Media stuff for the tour I was kind of focused on like okay what other you know social media Outlets are
there and what other you know kind of media companies are starting to emerge and basically like who’s like lighting
us on fire on a weekly basis uh and oh that turns out they’re laying up didn’t like that decision uh kind of stuff and
so I was they were very much on my radar there and I just got to know all the guys like it’s really funny I remember
remember being at the open in 2015 was the first time I had ever gone to the open
and I Met Sally there and we were walking around the golf course for I
don’t know probably five hours six hours before either of us realized that oh I guess we’ve we’ve never met in person
before have we uh just because we had like you know been talking so much on DMS and texts and WhatsApp and stuff
um and just kind of became really good like friends from the internet it was the same with same with Tron same with Randy same with Neil and uh so yeah I
wasn’t there at the beginning but uh you know it kind of felt like since 2017
like before I jumped on basically they weren’t doing any video stuff so I was there at the beginning of the video
stuff and and kind of there too to be on the podcast as it as it kind of has grown into what it is now was that
your opening Gambit was it did you uh message them and say oh come on board I’ll just take care of your video it’ll
all be okay yeah exactly no well that’s it’s funny going back to the first thing I said was like yeah I don’t really like
I don’t know what I’m doing so you know you could probably hire uh somebody somebody else that’s much more
knowledgeable uh in all this stuff they probably couldn’t have afford to uh to pay them anything because I I think I
was willing to take a pretty uh a pretty hefty pay cut to go to go work with them but the uh yeah that was kind of the
sales pitch was like you know the first big thing we did together was okay I think we should do this like golf
travel thing golf’s obviously a very visual game and all the travel stuff that’s out there is all like you know
tourism based and you know shout out to this course for paying us to come out here isn’t it you know isn’t it amazing
this is beautiful uh it’s all just like very advertorial stuff and uh actually
the first first big thing we did was um a friend of our Zach Blair who plays
on the PGA tour was getting ready to go play the Australian Open in the uh off season and
he was like Hey you know he was like an architecture sicko and he’s like all right I’m gonna I’m gonna play and we’re
gonna wrap up on these dates like why don’t you guys meet me in Melbourne and we’ll go you know we’ll go play Kingston
Heath and Vic and you know Royal Melbourne and all these places and uh I was like all right cool let’s make that
you know we’ve been talking about doing this travel series like there we go like I know none of us really know how to use cameras but like why don’t we uh I don’t
know we can just shoot it on our cell phones and we’ll come back and we’ll just edit it into whatever it is and uh
yeah just ended up working out so that was the first season of uh Taurus sauce that we did and now we’ve just wrapped
up our eighth season which was in Scandinavia so it’s that’s how it started and that was kind of the big sales pitch and we’ve gone on to do a
bunch of other stuff since then it’s moved on so much hasn’t it when you look at you know obviously when you you know
we’re speaking this afternoon I sort of flicked on watched some of the early stuff and you look at how much it’s moved on you must sit there and I don’t
know like it’s like the production quality is one thing but I suppose there’s a whole other aspect that the
viewer doesn’t see necessarily like the course selection you know how much of it is important to look at the courses
you’re going to and the culture and everything because very easily you can kind of tick off really big Headliners
kind you’ve talked about it there Sam belt boom there we go then we go to Scotland we go and play the big ones over there then we go to Ireland and
it’s like oh actually you kind of almost just ticking through lots of really big courses and big areas so going to
Scandinavia where you can go and look at the whole cultural aspect and it’d be more of a travel series I guess that was
quite refreshing right totally and that’s where I would give Tron a massive amount of credit he he does a lot of the
planning for that he’s kind of like are you know kind of our conscience uh on
that front of just like man it would exactly what you’re saying like it would be so so so easy to work with travel
bureaus and work with you know Departments of Tourism and and all those things to just say hey why don’t you
come here and tick off the biggest and the best names uh and I just I don’t know I just think that gets like very
soulless very fast right and you’re almost kind of just like it’s uh it’s
just not the same thing and I think it’s kind of goes speaks a little bit back to what I was saying at the beginning where
if this thing is is going to work like all of those headlines are great and all of the
um you know recognizable names are awesome but I think that the stuff that I won’t say the majority of people but
the stuff that are our hardest core fans tend to enjoy the most is the stuff that
is like man I’ve never heard of that place but it was really fun to just like watch a buddy’s trip go experience it
for the first time so like a place like uh like Cullen would be a great example of a place in Scotland that you know we
yes we went to Royal dornick and we went to the old course and those were amazing and they probably have I haven’t even
checked but they probably have more views on our YouTube channel but like when I think back on that Scotland trip like what I enjoyed the most was going
to Cullen and going and seeing like oh my god I’ve never heard of this place and it looks like Jurassic Park and
there’s these like big rocks just growing out of the ocean and why did like everybody saying Golf Course isn’t
it it’s unbelievable plays unbelievable like everybody should know about this place and that’s where I like get the
most satisfaction is is including those places and that’s where Tron is like so so good at
getting his arms around the entirety of a golf landscape and making sure that
you know yes like we are like you know uh this Scandinavia season we just did like brohof salute like that hosts the
you know whatever it is the Scandinavian Masters and they host that I think they had a solheim cup back in the day and
like it was kind of built to be a Ryder Cup course like that’s the one that maybe people have have heard of but a
place like visby or a place like philbaka or these places that are just like way off the beaten path or the
places that you you get to and you look around you’re like God nobody’s like nobody would have seen these places
otherwise not not to be kind of you know Pat ourselves on the back too hard but it’s like that’s the stuff that’s that’s
most exciting to me because like if you can going to the old course is amazing it’s my favorite golf course in the
world like I don’t think I probably need to to tell you guys anything about the old course but it’s like it’s really cool that like you can’t really find too
much on on Cullen or on some of these other places without you know kind of the initial stuff that we did there
which is which is really cool and very satisfying because it can as as you guys know I’m sure getting deeper into it
like it’s kind of a grind it’s not you know you get through the first the first couple years are you’re just kind of
like running on pure adrenaline right like oh my God this is amazing we get to film ourselves playing golf and then you
start to realize like oh God no like every time I’m playing golf I I have to film myself sort of a uh sort of a
feeling like a lock jaw isn’t it you can’t yeah I like you know Tom’s always said lock jaw like we kind of you bite
off so much like it’s obscene you get yourself into complete pickle you’re
totally behind on deadlines and when you want to push this stuff out and then the next year comes around and you’re like oh let’s just do the same again we can
do 36 a thousand percent it’s like when you’re a kid and you try and you try and see how many
sweet so you can fit in your mouth any one time and you’re like you’re there and you’re like literally can’t breathe and and then like you wait a few days
and all you can remember was the taste of the sweet it wasn’t the pain tasted amazing that’s 100 right yes and
so so trying to like try to figure all that out and figure all the processes out and figure out how
to you know because I’m again I’m sure you guys feel this with the stuff that you put out which I love watching by the
way I should have said that at the beginning but uh it’s it’s not really like you can just dump it to another
editor right like that’s kind of the other thing that I think people don’t necessarily realize not to get too deep in the Weeds on
#the process uh here but the uh I think a lot of people are like oh just like
just freelance it just freelance it just just give it to another editor it’s like well it’s really hard to get somebody
who like wasn’t on a buddy’s trip to really capture the soul of like what it’s like to be on a buddy strip and
that editor has to be somebody who knows us who knows our sense of humor who
knows all the inside jokes from the eight years we’ve been doing this who knows you know why the second hole at
the old course has like so many different options and strategy and why that’s important and why this shot’s more interesting than this shot and like
those people don’t really grow on trees so you gotta kind of like either do some of it yourself or you gotta like slowly
ramp up finding people that uh you know you you really trust to do that stuff and that’s where that’s why our team has
just like grown very very slowly and why the people that we we do have now like Ben and Cody and Casey and and people
like that that um people may have seen kind of in the background of our our stuff our so hard to find and why we’re so
thankful for finding them because it’s it’s not easy to do I think the uh I think you can Outsource
the filming more than you can Outsource the editor totally yeah kind of I think that’s I think that’s right together in post but like if they don’t see it the
way that you you want to envisage it in your head it’s just like you can give them the best footage a bad editor you
give the best footage and they’ll come up with something absolutely awful but you can take them fairly so substandard
footage and as long as you’ve got a good Edge steak you generally make things make things work yeah that’s kind of how
we’ve how we found it as well so how many uh how many guys have you got on your team now then that do all the
filming so everybody kind of does a little bit of everything so there’s eight people on our team now so if
you’ve listened to the podcast you’ve probably heard me Tron Solly is kind of our main our main host who who’s on
every podcast and Randy and Neil um and the way we started out was sort
of like everybody just passed the camera around and you know if if somebody’s got a cool shot that looks worth filming
somebody grab the camera and and shoot it and uh that was like really great for
a very long time I think for again getting kind of into the weeds here but
like for what you were saying about editing like those first couple Seasons that we did it was it was really really
hard when you don’t have uh kind of a storyline you don’t want to like pre-produce the storyline right like you
don’t want to say like okay we’re going to show up at this place on the other side of the world and here’s our rigid
plan of how it has to go and what we’re going to shoot and what we’re not going to shoot and here’s how we’re going to
edit it six months in advance like obviously you don’t want to do that you got to keep the fluidity and kind of some of the organic nature because
that’s what everybody loves but at the same time if you don’t have any plan and it’s just like shoot
everything and the editor will figure it out like that’s where all of a sudden it’s like oh my God we got to release this when like I need a month to do all
of these because you’re just you don’t really have a story in in mind it looks like I’m touching a nerve there uh
between you two but the uh Mouse ability he’s such a prima donor I can’t tell you
guys are insane to deal with it it all kind of falls on the editor to basically like okay there is no story so like now
we just need to figure out like based on this person accidentally said this on the fourth hole at Barn Boogle Dunes
okay maybe there’s something we can pull on there and then maybe that’ll call back to this thing that somebody said you know six hours later and maybe those
two things can fit together like it just gets really hard to just pull that out of thin air and so we did that kind of
the first I’d say the first like maybe four seasons of our travel Series so we went
to Australia which again was like pure adrenaline just oh my God I can’t believe we’re here that was kind of the story
Scotland uh with season two that was a bit of the same thing just like I can’t believe that we’re in Scotland and oh my
God this is where the game started and there’s plenty you know you can kind of accidentally uh just pull something out of out of Scotland uh California we went
up the California coast from LA to San Francisco and we were all stuck in an RV together so that was kind of where most of the the drama came from was just
trying not to murder each other in the RV and then Ireland was a little bit another kind of like oh my God we’re in
Ireland like this is this is so crazy and we’re really like started to bump up
against the okay we might need a little bit more structure here was when we went to the Carolinas with season five
and it was a place kind of all of us had been before so it wasn’t really like you didn’t really have that adrenaline it
was at the end of a really long year uh we were kind of trying to again like you guys said a bit of lockjaw trying to try
to fit it in uh and so we were kind of like all right well why don’t we Institute like more of a season-long
structure because the way that we always think about it and I don’t know if you guys do it the same way is like there’s
kind of almost like three levers that we can pull on on on every episode and like
the levers are always going to add up to 100 right or add up to one or you know whatever but there’s kind of like the
golf course architecture lever there’s like the competitive golf lever and then
there’s like the miscellaneous lever and that might be us you know going to a bar
or running into some local or having some travel you know kind of Excursion
Adventure whatever uh but you never quite know so like when you’re at the old course it’s like oh all of a sudden
the like Golf Course architecture ramps up to 90 and the other two are like five and five right or if you’re at a place
like Cullen it’s like okay well we’re not we don’t really need to talk about like the strategy of playing around these rocks so let’s just ramp up like
the miscellaneous category you know what I mean and so that’s where we’ve kind of tried to get with a lot of these other seasons is like we have a through line
of competition which is more for like the structure than for you know thinking
that our competition is like the most important thing in the world and and that anybody like really cares about it
it’s more just that like we need to have some sort of backbone through this thing so that like if those other two pillars
are not there at least we have an 18 hole match that we can we can fall back on and we kind
of know that like at least we can kind of zero in on like Randy is playing against Tron and you know let’s follow
the birdies and bogeys of that and the other stuff we can kind of like slot in as as needed so I suppose it kind of
gives you your own line then as well doesn’t it so it’s like you know if you’re playing somewhere and you’ve got a match it’s like I know I’ve got to do
that today that’s my job I’m gonna 100 you know which is it’s like you’re all waving cameras around and just 100
points in different directions yeah which I think has made it more fun and that’s what I was trying to trace my my
footsteps back to how I even got to this point and I remember you asking about like how do we film everything so that’s
now that we’ve hired Ben and Cody have come with us on the last two trips and
it’s just been night and day difference where like you’re saying like it can be again I’m sure you guys have felt this it’s it’s tough especially on the back
end of a two-week trip for like okay be hyper aware of the history of the golf course be hyper aware of the
architecture that you’re playing uh be hyper aware of when you need to pick up a camera be hyper aware of making sure
the mic packs are on make sure that the thing’s in Focus make sure you’re not on slow-mo and also like be super engaging
in front of the camera like that’s a lot too it’s a lot to manage and so now that we have some help uh which again like I
said is is very hard to find but now that we have a little bit of help it’s it’s much easier to kind of be like okay
Randy your only job for the day is just beyond like you are playing golf on camera and you need to be in a good mood
and you need to be ready to go and you need to you know pretend like you care about the match because people you know
we want people to to kind of like feel like the outcome is important and vice versa it’s you know Neil you are not on
camera today so I just need you researching this place before we get there making sure you know how to tee
people up for questions you know all that and so we’re just incredibly incredibly lucky that all
five I guess eight kind of people on our team are are willing to willing and able
to kind of slot into those different roles like pretty effortlessly so that’s that’s kind of our advantage over over
everybody else I think I want to uh get into the depths of Scandinavia shortly um but I’m just
gonna get mega deep just a stupid question um do you things just turn off about 90
of the listenership now they’ve got no interest in color grading so here we go do you think the filming uh and like you
just said and being having to be switched on all the time and all that sort of thing do you think the filming has affected your relationship with golf
because of my own negative way yeah it’s interesting I I
yeah I think in a I think it’s been both a positive and a
negative where I think it’s been really really hard for me to feel like playing
recreational golf like without cameras because it’s a lot of times it is you
know we go on these world-class trips and it’s amazing and the positives is that I’ve now seen more golf courses than I
can remember and I have all this experience to draw on and you know kind of build you this like
Bevy of context in in where you can actually like feel confident saying no I think this golf course is better than
this golf course for this reason and this is what I loved about this feature and I wish they would do that here and blah blah blah I think it just raises
your your floor of uh of context right and I think that trickles into the pro
game I think it trickles into travel I think it trickles into like a lot of different things
um and then negatively it has been a lot of like okay we go on these big long
trips they’re very exhausting because you’re filming the whole time uh and then when we come back I mean we started
editing the Scandinavia stuff in I don’t know September late September something like that and finished Christmas and so
it’s like all right for you know 12 hours a day it’s like all I’m doing is just like watching golf shots and then
when I’m when I’m not doing that it’s like we’re watching this is again like we wouldn’t trade this for anyone’s or
anything so please you know don’t don’t weep for uh for me watching there’s not so much there’s no violence
but it’s like okay well then whenever that’s not going on then like we need to be watching and following Pro Golf to
talk about it on the podcast so then it’s like okay you’ve got a Saturday morning uh you know where you
can go do anything it’s like yeah golf’s not like super high on the list I wouldn’t say I’d kind of rather just like get a coffee with my wife and hang
out or watch a movie or you know whatever uh so there’s been a little bit of
overload from from that regard but I think I’m also starting to just by getting more help and getting more
resources and having everybody on the team kind of like more comfortable picking stuff up and dividing and
conquering like able to kind of almost be more like a producer on a lot of projects so like we did a video last
year one of the things I think I’m like most proud of last year was we did a video on this this place Aiken
Golf Club in South Carolina and yeah it’s great so cool right and I I am very
proud to say like I’ve never been to that place and we produced this like amazing you know 30 minute video on this
guy Jim McNair and his whole vision for it and that was purely just Tron and Matt golden who I should have mentioned
earlier is like the biggest you know probably the biggest help that I have on
uh putting a lot of this stuff out he’s been with us since season one of tourist sauce he’s he kind of sent me an email
was like Hey I’m a I’m a video editor and like my specialty really is just
taking like a big pile of unorganized footage and spinning it into like a story I was like oh my God buddy do I do
I have something for you yeah exactly and so he’s he’s kind of been with us uh since then which is has
been awesome but that was TRON and him that totally worked on that and uh I was
kind of on the front end like you know hey here if you need me but it seems like you guys have it and so that’s kind
of what we’re trying to get to is like being able to divide and conquer that stuff a little bit more we did another
um another thing last year on Sand Greens golf courses yeah Kansas that was a really nice film thank you yeah which
again was like I we worked with a guy named it wasn’t quite Arty wasn’t it it was really it was it was I’m not saying
this stuff’s not usually Arty but no no no that’s like when you talk to a girl in a
bar and say those are great earrings my mum no I noticed everything was in Focus was that a conscious change for you guys
uh no but we had uh there was a guy named Liam tangum who was like a film
school grad like a young guy that just graduated uh from Film School in LA and he lived in Atlanta and he’s like every
time I drove between Atlanta and La I’d go buy all these golf courses and so that was again kind of one that I was
able to be more like EP on and just like hey you know almost more like uh like client work just like
hey change this and you know maybe this Frame doesn’t quite work and can we do this and blah blah blah and that that
has energized me so much more in the past year of not feeling like I need to do everything you know beginning to end
and kind of sharing the load with everybody else is has made golf uh a lot more fun again so that’s something I’m
looking forward to 23 here of course you um you mentioned Aiken I cannot I’m I
mean look my experience of golf in America is not huge but that’s one of the courses I played and as a municipal
course my understanding is that is right out there is the quality of Municipal Golf that you can get in the US like oh
yeah it’s kind of revered obviously I don’t know how much of this sort of links into straps and the stuff you do
there but I kind of get the sense that real cheap golf in America is that to
find really good cheap golf is extremely hard whereas I feel like there’s so much of it over in Britain and when we talk
about you know how do you piece together an itinerary in America for 500 bucks for four courses everyone’s like yeah
you can’t do it it’s like pointless is that true or you know is that just not digging hard enough what’s what’s that’s
100 true I mean there’s always like where we kind of started with with strapped and I mean we started with with
it a couple years ago and for anyone who doesn’t know the the premise is basically we have two guys Randy Neal uh
their their goal is to to put together a three-day like two nights three days golf trip
gotta play three rounds of golf uh on 500 and that has to pay for lodging golf
food booze whatever whatever pops up and granted we started that a couple years
ago and uh inflation has made that uh even tougher uh these days but yeah it’s
tough man and we started that out trying to really find like architectural gems and I think we’ve we
found a lot of good ones I mean the the places we went in Iowa were legitimately great golf courses all for in that kind
of like 25 30 range and there are parts of the country where it’s easier to do
that I just moved to Milwaukee uh like five or six months ago and it’s funny
talking to the real estate agent uh he was kind of you know I had already already been sold on Milwaukee I love
Milwaukee for a lot of reasons but he’s like yeah I mean we just have so much like Great Park District Golf and like
you know it’s almost kind of overwhelming you don’t really know where to play and I was like wow that that doesn’t exist anywhere else he’s like
really I’m like yeah no that’s that’s pretty much impossible to find he’s like oh I guess I don’t know I’ve never
thought about that I guess I’m spoiled I’m like okay well I think this is the place I need to be then uh but you can
find it at the point is you can find it in the midwest you can find it in kind of some of the more rural places where
just cost of living is is less but I mean trying to do that in you know we’re kicking around these ideas of like where
else can we go where it’s even like like possible I mean try and especially in the winter now it’s like all right well we’re basically limited to like
Florida which we already did Texas Arizona it’s like Arizona is like
it’s impossible to go do that especially during the winter yeah it would be it
would be like there’s no way you can’t really find anything really for less than a hundred
bucks that’s not you know just doing 200 000 rounds a year kind of place you
know that’s just like a complete Factory uh so that’s the other thing that’s made it really tough is kind of like covid
boom in golf is just I mean it’s everywhere is just buzzing even we saw that in Scandinavia too I mean
everything was just absolutely slammed so yeah it’s it’s good ultimately I guess for for
golf um but it’s again kind of like you know how long is that Gonna Last and are we
just gonna kind of repeat all the same mistakes and it’s to what end as well isn’t it you know I think you know
obviously living over in Britain you see it the top end golf courses have gone up crazy you know like the cost of playing
them now because there’s so much of the American Market that’s willing to you know that kind of they don’t really care
about cost as much I think when they’re traveling so then the domestic the domestic Market’s kind of out of it and
then so everything’s kind of shot up a lot totally when you talk about 500 bucks for what three days two nights
it’s like yeah do you know what you could probably do quite a bit of that in Britain but you know that’s going to get less and less you know it’s just it’s
the nature of the Beast it’s strange isn’t it really there’s so many more people playing the game but costs are just going up crazy like I you know I’m
saying that with green fees for sure yeah it’s funny funny how that works I think a lot of it’s just the way you
know the different attitudes towards towards how land gets protected or preserved or kind of the different
trusts that a lot of these courses are are built around and you know it’s just so easy over here to uh it’s it’s it’s
very very difficult and it’s almost like the exception to the rule of like well why wouldn’t I sell this to a developer
to put in a shopping center or to put in an apartment complex or you know it’s
just you almost like the act of uh keeping something a golf course in a lot of places is just like
kind of almost this Herculean effort so it’s it’s kind of tough to uh tough to watch and that’s what we I think that’s
what drives a lot of what we do is in the golf course that I grew up at was one of those places so you could go play
for 30 bucks and now it does not exist anymore the place that Sally grew up at was the same thing doesn’t exist anymore
and it’s just kind of I think we’ve all seen this yeah I think we’ve all seen this like in the places where we grew up
and you see it every time you go home to visit your parents and it’s just kind of these constant reminders of like all right if if these places are out there
like we need to we need to get to them and you know kind of use whatever platform we we have to kind of show them
off because there’s they’re disappearing by the day so you’ve obviously just finished on the
back of your Scandinavia tour the latest here a tour of source and it was fabulous congratulations on the whole
thing um it was a like you say a slight paradigm shift in terms of uh what you were trying to achieve out of it kind of
a bit more touristy than uh than golfy um why Scandinavia why the places you
visited what was all what sort of caused that to come about yeah again I think
this was this was TRON really like pushing that idea and selling the rest of us on it because it’s it’s not the
easiest place to get to and you know it helps when he’s kind of running him and Cody are kind of running a lot of the
the logistics on it um which was great but I I think it kind of goes back to a little bit of what I
was saying about Colin right where it’s like if you Google you know philbaka Golf Club I guess I haven’t really done
that but you’re probably not going to find a ton right and it’s it’s just really really fun to kind of go there
and plant your flag in a place that you know nobody else is has really been I mean we did that in in Oregon and again
it was like it was great to be at Bandon and you know we did I’m really pumped
about like what we were able to do there but so many people have been abandoned and so many people have seen it and there’s so many great videos out there
about it and it’s like a scoop is it it’s not like yeah it’s great yeah we know exactly like
that stuff is is there if you want to see it but I think it’s it’s more fun and kind of going back to what you know
going back to like what what I was kind of saying too about like the energy and the adrenaline of of going to some of
these places is it’s uh Michigan was was fantastic because I think we put together a great
plan and we had a great mix of places and it’s really fun to go to both you know like the loop which is the Tom Doak
reversible Golf Course is awesome to see but it’s also fun to go to We’ll Wash kamo and Go to like some of these places
way off the beaten path or go to like Grand Rapids was a great example of a place that Andy Johnson the the guy who
runs the fried egg has been telling us about for years but like same thing you can’t really you don’t find anything on
Diamond Springs or pilgrims run or the mines or these like unbelievable golf courses that we’ve all since been back
to even since then because we’ve loved them so much uh and but the rest of it is kind of like okay well you know we’re
we’re in Michigan like we’ve all been to Michigan before and everybody speaks English and you go eat you know if you
want you can go eat it at an Applebee’s in the evening or you can go to you know whatever it’s not really like an exotic
uh feeling whereas like Scandinavia was kind of one of those like all right we did Michigan last year that we did a
really good job we’re all very pumped and proud of how that turned out but like let’s get way out of our comfort
zone and let’s go like raise your hand if you have any idea what golf in Scandinavia
looks like okay nobody raised their hand like let’s go find out and and I think one thing that you know you mentioned it being a little
bit more like touristy which was definitely the goal was you know I think you go take a trip like that and golf is
is almost like secondary which I think is fine right I mean it’s it’s not like uh I think the golf
courses were really really good I think it would be hyperbole to all of a sudden say like no no truly like the world’s
best courses are in Scandinavia like that’s not the case and I don’t even think anyone in Scandinavia would say that we found some awesome ones I mean
bisbee’s great uh brohof was very cool Stockholm golf club was was a really cool old Harry Colt design
um but other than that I mean it’s kind of like no they’re just like they’re very cool golf courses in unbelievable locations and I think getting back to
some of that like season one season two like out of the comfort zone don’t speak this
don’t speak the language uh trying to figure it out kind of stuff was really energizing and really really fun so
hopefully that that came across a little bit as well that was kind of a cool thing for us we recently came out from
the Netherlands and it’s it’s kind of the same it’s like it’s nice playing a great golf course but then when you couple it with it sounds so stupid but
you know a Dutch menu in the evening or totally going to a different you know something like cobbled streets and going
to a bistro rather than you know going to a British pub the whole thing feels different I do have one question which
is I suppose do you got you guys obviously have a huge amount of pulling power now like you’ve got a huge amount
of influence your your films are so popular do you ever have a bit where you almost sort of mindful of how much you
can put the spotlight on somewhere so you know I know loads of people have said to me God Bisbee just looks amazing
like everyone says I want to go to visby and that’s a direct result of your work but sometimes I guess are you ever
mindful that it’s like actually this could bring quite a bit of heat or quite a bit of activity you know the clubs
might be really busy all of a sudden you know does any of that ever feature in your thoughts or I’m not saying it
should do but you get what I mean right like you you get to a point of big influence don’t you I suppose eventually
yeah I think so and I think we’ve always hopefully looked at it as as a positive I mean I say this for the 18th time on
this podcast but like Cullen’s a great example of one that Aurora is a good example you like Cullen yeah
using that is like I mean that’s the the definition of what you’re talking about right is yeah yeah people have had never
heard of it and all of a sudden like oh man I’m taking a trip to Scotland and like I absolutely am going to add that
and I think for really small towns like that like I mean they’re just super appreciative and like we still get notes
from from the people there and the people of Aurora and the people at some of these like off the off the radar
places that all of a sudden are like man they’re like I know it’s kind of weird but like there there’s not too many days to go by that somebody doesn’t come in
with a hat on or with a shirt on or whatever which is unbelievably cool and and uh yeah something we try not to
think about too much because it kind of makes your head spin a little bit but I think that that again that’s where I I
give Tron a ton of credit for that as well of thinking through that mixture and making sure that you know we’re
always uh kind of delivering on all levels of of golf right and making sure
that these trips aren’t just you know oh if you’re in whatever you know if you’re
in San Francisco you really should check out Cal Club it’s like oh really it’s interesting that’s good yeah you should
check out Cypress Point if you’re around there this place is great it’s great yeah uh so tron’s just really good at
like being that backstop of like okay we have a lot of really good names on this
trip like we need to mix in some other stuff and I also think one thing that all we’re pretty
um we’re pretty conscious of is like hey we do a ton of research on the front
end to make sure that like before we go spend a day at a place like it’s probably a place that we’re gonna like
and probably a place that other people we respect you know have really liked or
it comes highly recommended so that we’re not just showing up totally blind and you know gonna like not really like
a place like the one place I mean I think it’s pretty clear from watching the videos but like we went to Ireland we went to to Dune Bug and we’re like
yeah this is not really it like this isn’t it’s a great piece of land but of
course just the golf course was not great it was like overly punishing we
were looking for golf balls the whole day the like commercial as well isn’t that super yeah very very commercial
just like it just wasn’t really for us and I think you could without us you know objectively kind of on it
in the video because I mean it is still some people love it and some people just are like man the views at that place is
are unbelievable and that’s what I’m here for and that’s great too like not gonna tell anybody how to how to enjoy
their day out there but for us we’re like yeah it’s just not really my favorite type of place and I think that
came through a little bit on the video and I think that’s one reason why we’re very diligent about you know going back
to the earlier conversation about you know working with tourism groups or or things like that like we try to avoid
that at all costs because the last thing we want is just like you know we’ll set
you up here and like you can talk about how awesome it is uh we really really really don’t want to be in that
situation because you’ve got to say nice stuff about places you you wouldn’t choose to
go at least if you make a decision to go there it’s like this is why I went there and it kind of delivered but it there
was also some bits like this which wasn’t what quite what I was expecting it you kind of made the decision you
know you’re going to justify it in some respect so we try to be pretty diligent about that on the front end and again that’s where Tron is so so good at
um picking those spots and I think you know I I other than the Ireland that one
course in Ireland I would hesitate to think of any places we’ve gone that don’t just get full two thumbs up like
you should go check out this place if you’re here and that’s because we’ve just done a ton of research on the front end to make sure of that that fact so
how do you find that I mean like I said it’s pretty I think I think it’s coming out pretty clear you like Cullen
um how do you find Cullen because like we’re we live in Britain you know we’ve actually been to color and you’ve got I
think you guys sponsor like the 14th hole there don’t you I think so yeah it’s got a little a little plaque on
that um it’s not easy to find color and even if you know that stretch of that stretch
of coast up in Scotland so how do you stumble across something like that I know again it’s it’s it’s Tron tron’s
like a a freak about you know what’d you do last night I just got on Google Maps and I looked at every golf course in the
state of Oregon and I just I don’t know this one looks really cool this one looks great we this one we can avoid
blah blah blah and I think he’s he gets obsessive about I think there’s a couple resources like the top 100 golf courses
website um was great in Scandinavia and provided a ton of information uh and you have to
talk to him about kind of like all his his ways he finds it but I know that’s really helpful uh in the states the and
I guess he’s he’s done the the ones in uh UK and Ireland too but the Tom doe confidential guide yeah is super super
helpful to go through and and read Tom’s thoughts on all these places I know that’s been a big help in the past and
then just like random random friends that we have that are are kind of golf sickos who who take these trips as well
so like someone like Jim Hartzell someone might recognize from our podcast and from Twitter and whatever he’s been
to Western Scotland he’s like honestly probably has to be one of the foremost Experts of on golf in Western Scotland
in America or anything around there it’s like yeah and he’s been going there for 30 years and he is an architect who
lives in Alabama and is just like that’s his spot and any questions you have let me know anybody you need to you know run
into let me know uh Michael Wolff Bama Bearcat is another one who’s always on Twitter he’s like he’s super helpful on
you know weird places in Japan or Korea or stuff like that
Scandinavia was a great one just because tron’s uh tron’s wife’s family is all
from Stockholm and so like pear who was in our episode one of our our video as a
former he played on the I think he played in the Scandinavian tour for a while and he belongs to a couple golf
courses and so he was a great resource so it’s just just talking to people I mean there’s not really like a big uh
Google repository of like a list of here’s here’s a perfect thing for your tourist sauce you know itinerary so it’s
it’s kind of something Tron just comes up with and uh you know we all have so much trust in him that he puts together
a great list and we kind of don’t even ask any questions we kind of just sounds good let’s let’s go do it I’m not quite
ready to push it out to chat GPT just yet then not yet not yet but just yeah um
I mean it’s been a it’s been it’s been a blast it’s been great fun listening to this and catching up I guess kind of quite a hot start on the filming front
for the for the new year my guess that you’re going to be a busy boy this year now with the Titleist stuff out the
plantation recently I guess you’re going to have your work cut out on the filming front yeah I think so in a good way I
mean we’re all we’re trying to pick our spots and trying to really make sure that we’re doing exactly what we want to do and like you you’ve alluded to a
couple times I mean kind of accidentally here we’ve we find ourselves in a pretty good spot where where people will watch
what we put out and we want to make sure we’re not putting out anything bad and so uh it’s been awesome to kick off the
the Titleist partnership they’ve been such an awesome team to work with and and kind of you know have full trust in
us to whatever you guys want to do like we’re here to support it not the other way around uh so that’s been really
really great and to kick things off with yeah the spief and JT video was like
still kind of can’t believe that that even happened it feels a little bit like a fever dream of of the last week or so
here so you guys are pretty big now do you still get pinch yourself moments like that oh yeah oh 100 totally I mean
it’s because it feels like to the punter looking on it feels like this is sort of all Dairy girl
no we’re I think very um yeah it’s it’s interesting it’s a good
mix of like you know when you like run into a tour player at the the hotel lobby or something it’s not quite like
oh my God I can’t believe that person plays on the PJ tour like I think we’re pretty comfortable with that right at
this point but like standing somewhere like loaferton like at 2 A.M in the middle of the night when you’re like
watching like this really incredible match between like two of your best friends and I can’t believe we’re here
to like film this and the sun won’t go down and we have this unbelievable like basically like a screensaver in front of
us like to ourselves like that was like I can’t believe that’s that’s real life stuff that that was really really cool
but I think on that note DJ I mean you’ve been an absolute pleasure to have on the podcast and you’ve given us lots
of good insights and it’s nice to finish on a good point so thank you very much indeed yeah what else do you let me ask
what else do you guys got coming up I know you have your the the uh Amsterdam Netherlands stuff what’s the what else
is on the list for you guys so we’ve got a few things coming we’ve got um we’ve got the Netherlands tour that’s gonna that is gonna start the 17th of Jan for
us so we’re gonna there’s gonna be seven films in total coming out from there and Associated podcasts um
which will start on the 17th of Jan for us we’ve got a few left in the can that um that we need to do coming out the
other side of that so gozik have you heard of gozik no I’m sure Trump will have probably
exactly Village which is the most ridiculous 9-hole course you’ve ever seen it’s like
the fifth or sixth oldest in England yeah it’s crazy so we’ve got some stuff there we’ve got loads of other stuff with things like events as well like
events are quite cool obviously been in Britain it’s so easy to kind of get people to somewhere because everywhere’s
like two or three hours away so you know it’s like we’re gonna probably hopefully press on with some event stuff this year
yeah there’s a ton of stuff but it’s hard to kind of really get in front of it I think you know maybe that speaks to
the the point of maturity in in like kind of what where we are you know it’s like a lot of stuff is
you tend to make decisions based on what’s in front of you over the next three or four weeks usually stuff just appears out of nowhere and then we go
and do it and it’s really good rather than I’m sitting here thinking well October’s going to be great because October I know we’re doing X Y and Z
like I think the the biggest thing for us this year will be walk a cup like there’s no way I’m missing that World
Cup at San Andreas that is absolutely circled days either side we’ll do some events
either side meetups and all that kind of good stuff um I mean the open was great fun last year the open was great but it’s such a
circus like it’s such a big circus that and it’s like well are we moving the dial on on the open I’m not sure we are
so whereas actually if you’re going to spend time at the Walker cup I actually feel like there’s a real real
opportunity for us to do something quite cool and different there perhaps so yeah I don’t know you guys over in the UK at
all before before the end of the year uh hopefully hopefully the Walker cup um I
mean yeah for all the reasons you mentioned that that without being like if you’re like a golf sicko pervert I
don’t know how you can get too much better than the Walker cup at the old course that’s that’s without hyperbole like about as cool as it gets so
hopefully we can use hyperbole that is it’s entirely warranted that I think that’s going to be great so hopefully we
get over for that but other than that it’ll be a lot of uh a lot of Ryder Cup stuff so I mean we’ll get over to Rome I
think hopefully earlier in the year to kind of do some like preview stuff and then we’ll be over for
over for the Ryder Cup I know a group is coming over to Spain for the solheim cup so I know that’s all more like
Continental stuff I don’t know how much we’ll be doing uh in the UK uh hopefully
tron’s tron’s trying to put together a Scotland thing for the next couple months but we’ll see if that that comes
to fruition I don’t want to I don’t want to spoil anything for what he’s what he’s thinking there but that should be a
really cool one um and then other than that we’re kind of same as you guys like sometimes stuff pops up and you don’t really expect it
to so there’s still trap on tour so season nine I’m guessing uh that’s right that’s right okay to be shared there yet
but it’s been an absolute pleasure yeah thanks for having me guys great great to catch up
no way
